Quote from Remiraz:
if profitable systems can be found on the net, then why do 80-90% of traders lose?
*ps: don't give me the same old psychology excuse. the rules can easily be automated.
Quote from auto:
Do you know the Automated TRAIN system .. you can test it in realtime.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54170
Quote from Grob109:
Probably because they begin poorly and have to leave trading.
A novice or beginner lacks knowlege, skills and experience.
He must pick a path to gain these as he makes money.
How do the 10 to 20% who make it do this?
They most likely get acquainted with trading by being invited to learn from a successful trader who is willing to be helpful.
You can see by the questions asked in ET for help that almost no one at all can ask any questions that lead to knowledge, skills or experience. Without the ability to even ask questions, most people will not get what is needed.
Even if a person were to ask good questions, he doesn't stand a chance of getting anything but just knowledge from answers.
Gaining skills through paper trading based upon no plan (it is not possible to have a plan as a beginner or intermediate, even) just leads to not having knowledge, not having skills and having the experience of failing over and over.
So mostly every one fails.
Getting an invitation to learn is nearly impossible. Formal learning is usally offered by those who want to make money providing learning to others as a business.
If and when I mentor, I guarrantee the learner's capital. This seems to aroue a proper attitude for having experiences that lead to skills that lead to knowledge.
The transference of knowledge, skills and experience seems only to be possible for very few when it is done remotely.
It is so strange how a person with no knowledge, skills or experience cannot see what markets do or even understand what the potential is.
How can anyone get to a place where they want to bet on an entry and then pick a target and protectives stops and think they have any chance of making money. It is just as unbelievable that they feel that they can prove to themselves what they want to do is going to work by testing it. They are in an equal position regarding knowledge, skills and experience for proving anything whatsoever.
Planning a possible pathway for gaining knowledge, skills and experience is not a complex undertaking. The path is fairly obvious but it is mostly obscured by the extent to which transferring money is not understood.
I deal with a group of about 15 to 20 people for 3 hours once every month. They are all more or less new to each other. They interrelate quite well and have a common desire to learn how to make money.
What do you think they are discovering? It mostly looks like they want to learn the IBD way things work. Everyone has read the "book" and everyone gets to paper.
Are they going to learn to make money??
Probably 1 out of 5 will. It is the way it all works out.
Investing when you are least knowledgable, least skilled and least experienced usually leads to failure simply because of the initial levels of risk for the trader; it has nothing to do with market risk, on the other hand.
There is some very dumb information floating around about measuring market risk. And there is zero information out there on trader (pesronal) risk as a consequence of no knowledge, no skills and no experience.
I made a scratch start and always made 10% or more a month. LOL...... I had it made from the beginning.
I never traded alone for the first three years. The guys I traded with were all making more than 10% a month. It was a pass it forward situation with successful traders. There was no learning curve as displayed by an equity curve starting slowly.
How can anyone expect to become a trader by soloing from scratch. "Trader risk" is almost a guarranteed knockout punch.
Look at Kelly out of BTL in the 50's. He wrote the answer book. No one uses it. Don't solo; let a successful trader find you and at least coatail trade as you learn. It is a nudging experience. Meaning you will be blocked from getting off the path.
Footnote: Think about the situation when a person is telling another person what he is doing is "impossible". What is going on? A person with a definite lack of knowledge, lack of skills and lack of experience is judging as "unbelieveable" someone he cannot see, hear, touch or smell and even think about that is doing his normal trading thing. It is not possible for a person who is estranged from sucessful traders to be able to gain skills, experience or knowledge. They are in an "unbelievable" place as a consequence of their lack of everything. There is no solo way out of that place.
Most people fail as "traders" because they never become traders in any way whatsoever. They have never met a trader it turns out.
Now, they still don't know from reading this.....
Quote from Grob109:
Probably because they begin poorly and have to leave trading.
A novice or beginner lacks knowlege, skills and experience.
He must pick a path to gain these as he makes money.
How do the 10 to 20% who make it do this?
They most likely get acquainted with trading by being invited to learn from a successful trader who is willing to be helpful.
You can see by the questions asked in ET for help that almost no one at all can ask any questions that lead to knowledge, skills or experience. Without the ability to even ask questions, most people will not get what is needed.
Even if a person were to ask good questions, he doesn't stand a chance of getting anything but just knowledge from answers.
Gaining skills through paper trading based upon no plan (it is not possible to have a plan as a beginner or intermediate, even) just leads to not having knowledge, not having skills and having the experience of failing over and over.
So mostly every one fails.
Getting an invitation to learn is nearly impossible. Formal learning is usally offered by those who want to make money providing learning to others as a business.
If and when I mentor, I guarrantee the learner's capital. This seems to aroue a proper attitude for having experiences that lead to skills that lead to knowledge.
The transference of knowledge, skills and experience seems only to be possible for very few when it is done remotely.
It is so strange how a person with no knowledge, skills or experience cannot see what markets do or even understand what the potential is.
How can anyone get to a place where they want to bet on an entry and then pick a target and protectives stops and think they have any chance of making money. It is just as unbelievable that they feel that they can prove to themselves what they want to do is going to work by testing it. They are in an equal position regarding knowledge, skills and experience for proving anything whatsoever.
Planning a possible pathway for gaining knowledge, skills and experience is not a complex undertaking. The path is fairly obvious but it is mostly obscured by the extent to which transferring money is not understood.
I deal with a group of about 15 to 20 people for 3 hours once every month. They are all more or less new to each other. They interrelate quite well and have a common desire to learn how to make money.
What do you think they are discovering? It mostly looks like they want to learn the IBD way things work. Everyone has read the "book" and everyone gets to paper.
Are they going to learn to make money??
Probably 1 out of 5 will. It is the way it all works out.
Investing when you are least knowledgable, least skilled and least experienced usually leads to failure simply because of the initial levels of risk for the trader; it has nothing to do with market risk, on the other hand.
There is some very dumb information floating around about measuring market risk. And there is zero information out there on trader (pesronal) risk as a consequence of no knowledge, no skills and no experience.
I made a scratch start and always made 10% or more a month. LOL...... I had it made from the beginning.
I never traded alone for the first three years. The guys I traded with were all making more than 10% a month. It was a pass it forward situation with successful traders. There was no learning curve as displayed by an equity curve starting slowly.
How can anyone expect to become a trader by soloing from scratch. "Trader risk" is almost a guarranteed knockout punch.
Look at Kelly out of BTL in the 50's. He wrote the answer book. No one uses it. Don't solo; let a successful trader find you and at least coatail trade as you learn. It is a nudging experience. Meaning you will be blocked from getting off the path.
Footnote: Think about the situation when a person is telling another person what he is doing is "impossible". What is going on? A person with a definite lack of knowledge, lack of skills and lack of experience is judging as "unbelieveable" someone he cannot see, hear, touch or smell and even think about that is doing his normal trading thing. It is not possible for a person who is estranged from sucessful traders to be able to gain skills, experience or knowledge. They are in an "unbelievable" place as a consequence of their lack of everything. There is no solo way out of that place.
Most people fail as "traders" because they never become traders in any way whatsoever. They have never met a trader it turns out.
Now, they still don't know from reading this.....
The best you can do since the system was optimized on the 8 years of data is to try it in real time by paper trading. I would never accept such a system without seeing results from testing on unseen forward data. ie optimize on 7 years and forward test on 1 year. That way you can determine if the optmization is continuing to work.