McDonalds is hiring.

TraderZones · Jul 4, 2009

Quote from david666:

Hmmm...competition from Asia? So we agree us has been sending jobs over there do to cheap labor. I assume that's what u mean by compeitition. Howver, since we sent so many jobs, the wages of those workers has gone up. In fact, they say by 2010 wages in thailand will match wages in the US! so that argument is blown away.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand

With a GDP about 3-4% of the USA and 60 million people, I doubt this statement. And they said that the GDP is a little over $8K which also does not support this argument

The pay in Bangkok is a lot different than in the provinces/country.

Mnphats · Jul 4, 2009

Quote from JJacksET4:

On the other hand, the Wendys which is in between the two MCD (so no location issue) I never ever see anyone in the drive-through - I've gone there my self sometimes just because I know there won't be any wait. I've had the MCD breakfast drive through take 15 minutes to get through!

You need to drive by at 2:00 am and see how deep the drive through is.

Mercor · Jul 4, 2009

All anybody looks at are the entre levels MCD jobs. Once you get into higher levels of store management the salerys are more inline.
Each restaurant is a multimillion dollar operation.

Misthos · Jul 4, 2009

Quote from david666:

Ok, regardless your opinion on Asian labor the fact is that most companies who outsource usually say two things. One its the jobs that have huge turnover. Two the jobs they outsource that are high skilled it jobs are the ones that americans don't have degrees in. I.E not enough US enigneers are being produced. They would hire american enineers and programmers but there is too few amerians pursuing those degrees.the main problem is the college degree ratio of americans versus asians. Somehow we need to encourage students to pick high skilled IT jobs which they are not.

Instead of blaming corporate America, try looking at the fundamentals. And just fyi the new trend is to bringing jobs BACK not sending them out. I recommend you study the topic or you will forever be locked in the closet of ignorance.

Enjoy that Koolaid do you?

You say we don't have enough engineers.

Do you know that there are law firms that specialize on advising companies how to write a want ad so they "can't" find someone who is qualified... and oh yeah, that same law firm shows the client how to get an H1B visa worker.

The engineer shortage is a myth perpetrated by corporations to ensure a constant flow of H1B visas and subsidies for outsourcing. There have been many studies done on this.

But let's say there is a shortage of engineers for arguments sake. In a capitalist society, those that invest money to get that degree should be rewarded, right? They should command high salaries, and in turn, more people would chase those salaries and get engineering degrees. But no - the pseudo capitalist corporations can't have that. They cry to government that they are not "competitive" (bullshit) and need to "outsource." So in the end, that college kid now has a huge school loan to pay off meanwhile another kid in India that is debt free gets the job for a third of the salary.

Then you say the jobs replaced have high turnover.

I was in the mortgage business some time ago - I saw entire departments get outsourced. Processing, IT, servicing... they were great jobs and people stayed at those jobs. But the Bank needed to be "competitive." Excuse me, but how many of those mortgages the newly outsourced employees work on does the bank give to people in India? ZERO. Again, the need to stay "competitive" is a myth.

Outsourcing is destroying our middle class so upper management can get fat bonuses - all the while running the company into the ground and screwing shareholders as well.

By the way, JP Morgan - a bank that is receiving a windfall with all the stimulus programs and bailouts enacted thru Treasury and the Fed wants to increasing outsourcing in IT by 25%. I think it's still too early to tell if jobs are really heading back to the US in a significant way. We'll see.

aegis · Jul 4, 2009

Quote from david666:

Two the jobs they outsource that are high skilled it jobs are the ones that americans don't have degrees in. I.E not enough US enigneers are being produced. They would hire american enineers and programmers but there is too few amerians pursuing those degrees.the main problem is the college degree ratio of americans versus asians. Somehow we need to encourage students to pick high skilled IT jobs which they are not.

Bullshit.

There are LOTS of very bright engineering students in the US and recent engineering grads. Nobody wants to hire them because companies don't want to pay them. These hiring managers know that they won't accept low-ball salary offers (like $20k/year), so they don't hire them. Also, American engineers are held to higher standards than their Asian counterparts and require ABET accredited engineering degrees, where as any Indian can print a phony diploma and get a work visa. Again, the hiring managers don't give a shit because Asians will do the job for $10-15k. They want quantity, not quality.

You should be able to earn a living wage out of college, especially with a degree in a technical field. If you can't, there's something seriously wrong with the health of the economy.

BTW, why would you encourage someone to pursue an IT career when those are the easiest jobs in the world to outsource?

If you were born in the 40s, 50s, or 60s, you should be grateful. The good ol' days are over.

Like Willy said in 'Death of a Salesman', "the competition is maddening".

david666 · Jul 4, 2009

Quote from aegis:

Bullshit.

There are LOTS of very bright engineering students in the US and recent engineering grads. Nobody wants to hire them because companies don't want to pay them. These hiring managers know that they won't accept low-ball salary offers (like $20k/year), so they don't hire them. Also, American engineers are held to higher standards than their Asian counterparts and require ABET accredited engineering degrees, where as any Indian can print a phony diploma and get a work visa. Again, the hiring managers don't give a shit because Asians will do the job for $10-15k. They want quantity, not quality.

You should be able to earn a living wage out of college, especially with a degree in a technical field. If you can't, there's something seriously wrong with the health of the economy.

BTW, why would you encourage someone to pursue an IT career when those are the easiest jobs in the world to outsource?

If you were born in the 40s, 50s, or 60s, you should be grateful. The good ol' days are over.

Like Willy said in 'Death of a Salesman', "the competition is maddening".

an October report by the highly regarded National Academies. Its numbers are startling: China adds 600,000 new engineers a year; the US, only 70,000. Even India, with 350,000 new engineers a year, is outdoing the US

aegis · Jul 4, 2009

Quote from david666:

an October report by the highly regarded National Academies. Its numbers are startling: China adds 600,000 new engineers a year; the US, only 70,000. Even India, with 350,000 new engineers a year, is outdoing the US

China's population is 4 times the US population. India's population is more than 3 times that of the US population. If you look at it that way, the numbers aren't nearly as startling.

Also, take into consideration the academic standards. There's a major different between a non-ABET accredited engineering school (like those found in Asia) and an ABET accredited engineering school like those in the US. In the US, you can't even sit for the PE exam unless you have an ABET degree. However, you can still work under a PE without an ABET degree.

Asian engineers are very good at memorizing and regurgitating information. When it comes to actually creating something, they get lost. They build what Americans tell them to build.

aegis · Jul 4, 2009

Quote from david666:

an October report by the highly regarded National Academies. Its numbers are startling: China adds 600,000 new engineers a year; the US, only 70,000. Even India, with 350,000 new engineers a year, is outdoing the US

Also, did you ever consider that this discrepancy was due to the fact that American engineering students can't find engineering jobs? Why put the money, time, and effort into earning a degree in a difficult field of study when you won't have a job waiting for you?

Would you do it?

The average salary of an American engineer with 20 years of experience has not increased in 15 years. It has stood at around $70k/year since the early 1990s.

dtrader98 · Jul 4, 2009

Quote from Misthos:

Enjoy that Koolaid do you?

You say we don't have enough engineers.

Do you know that there are law firms that specialize on advising companies how to write a want ad so they "can't" find someone who is qualified... and oh yeah, that same law firm shows the client how to get an H1B visa worker.

The engineer shortage is a myth perpetrated by corporations to ensure a constant flow of H1B visas and subsidies for outsourcing. There have been many studies done on this.

But let's say there is a shortage of engineers for arguments sake. In a capitalist society, those that invest money to get that degree should be rewarded, right? They should command high salaries, and in turn, more people would chase those salaries and get engineering degrees. But no - the pseudo capitalist corporations can't have that. They cry to government that they are not "competitive" (bullshit) and need to "outsource." So in the end, that college kid now has a huge school loan to pay off meanwhile another kid in India that is debt free gets the job for a third of the salary.

Then you say the jobs replaced have high turnover.

hen you say the jobs replaced have high turnover.

I was in the mortgage business some time ago - I saw entire departments get outsourced. Processing, IT, servicing... they were great jobs and people stayed at those jobs. But the Bank needed to be "competitive." Excuse me, but how many of those mortgages the newly outsourced employees work on does the bank give to people in India? ZERO. Again, the need to stay "competitive" is a myth.

Outsourcing is destroying our middle class so upper management can get fat bonuses - all the while running the company into the ground and screwing shareholders as well.

By the way, JP Morgan - a bank that is receiving a windfall with all the stimulus programs and bailouts enacted thru Treasury and the Fed wants to increasing outsourcing in IT by 25%. I think it's still too early to tell if jobs are really heading back to the US in a significant way. We'll see.

You are absolutely correct on stating this is a propagated myth. As an anecdote, I had a friend who had been a workaholic and solid engineer for years. He was laid off in America, however, after a long search, the only 'American' company that would hire him, did it under the provision that he would go train workers in China to replace many of the positions that American Engineers held-- at a fraction of the cost.

Spot on, my friend.

david666 · Jul 4, 2009

Quote from aegis:

China's population is 4 times the US population. India's population is more than 3 times that of the US population. If you look at it that way, the numbers aren't nearly as startling.

Also, take into consideration the academic standards. There's a major different between a non-ABET accredited engineering school (like those found in Asia) and an ABET accredited engineering school like those in the US. In the US, you can't even sit for the PE exam unless you have an ABET degree. However, you can still work under a PE without an ABET degree.

Asian engineers are very good at memorizing and regurgitating information. When it comes to actually creating something, they get lost. They build what Americans tell them to build.

Even taking those numbers into account they produced a lot more engineers then we did.

And that's such a generlazation its not even funny. Go look up IIT india institute of technology, many say its ten times HARDER than MIT. They have gone to do great things. In fact the starting salary of a IIT grad can be around 250k a year. Again, go do your research. They don't memorize anything.