maximum position size DOW, FDAX / daytrading

[Maverick77]

Dear trading community, I have a simple, maybe strange question and need your experience. What is the maximum position size FDAX, DOW (future contracts) with which you will be executed without any problems and still be a 'small fish' and thus stay below the 'radar'.

Let us assume that the trading account (including the required margin) allows the opening of such a position.

For example, could you buy 20 FDAX or DOW contracts without being noticed by the market? Up to what position size could one 'move' in the market in a similar way to a position size of four contracts? I would be very happy about an answer.

Best regards
Sebastian

 

[Overnight]

...
For example, could you buy 20 FDAX or DOW contracts without being noticed by the market? Up to what position size could one 'move' in the market in a similar way to a position size of four contracts? I would be very happy about an answer.

Best regards
Sebastian

Far as I know, futures do not move the market. The market moves the futures.

 

[Millionaire]

Dear trading community, I have a simple, maybe strange question and need your experience. What is the maximum position size FDAX, DOW (future contracts) with which you will be executed without any problems and still be a 'small fish' and thus stay below the 'radar'.

Let us assume that the trading account (including the required margin) allows the opening of such a position.

For example, could you buy 20 FDAX or DOW contracts without being noticed by the market? Up to what position size could one 'move' in the market in a similar way to a position size of four contracts? I would be very happy about an answer.

Best regards
Sebastian

You only have to look at the market depth to get an idea.

Also you have to factor in volatility when the daily ranges are narrower, the depth thickens.
With the volatility we have in 2020 the depth at each price level is thiner than say 2019. So the answer you want varies based on volatility.

FDAX is pretty thin but each contract is very large (notionally) .

FDAX is going to full tick increments on December 21, I would expect it to thicken up quite a bit after than date. More than double what it is today at each 0.5 tick level.

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/eurex-will-change-the-tick-size-on-dax-on-december-21.348619/

 

[Maverick77]

"You only have to look at the market depth to get an idea."

What do you think will happen if I try to trade such a size as a cfd e.g. with IG-Markets or CMC?

 

[Millionaire]

"You only have to look at the market depth to get an idea."

What do you think will happen if I try to trade such a size as a cfd e.g. with IG-Markets or CMC?

My guess they will have a maximum bet size for internet trades.
Anything above that they will want you to phone a dealer.

The exception might be if you are a consistent losing customer, then they might let you bet bigger over the web and take the other side of your trade (not send it to the market)

 

[maxinger]

It depends on timing.
sometimes the market is rather quiet and is not moving.
Enter with one lot and that's enough to move the market
( by a tiny amount of course ).

 

[Same Lazy Element]

Far as I know, futures do not move the market. The market moves the futures.

Except, of course, it's exactly the opposite in real life, since futures volume dwarfs pretty much everything else. Despite futures being a derivative, most market moves come from the futures side and there have been studies to that effect.

For example, could you buy 20 FDAX or DOW contracts without being noticed by the market? Up to what position size could one 'move' in the market in a similar way to a position size of four contracts? I would be very happy about an answer.

There is no straightforward answer to this question, as it would depend on things life current book depth, ambient volatility, time of the day (i.e. ability of a market maker to transfer risk to other instruments) and many other things. In general, you can back of the envelop market impact as square root of volume participation, but that curve would have kinks on both sides (very small size means no impact and very large size begets much larger impact than than expected).