Mav's Combine Proposition

[baggerlord]

This is totally OT which is always appropriate on this site. I finally realized why this forum has so much useless discussion. The problem is that there is no accepted standard of recognizing experts in the field. I am an active member of another forum. Its topic is my profession. My profession has very clear standards on who is who, who knows what they are talking about etc. On that site, if you run your mouth without having the credentials to back it, or even offer your opinion when you really aren't qualified to give one, you are banned in a heartbeat. Here in trading land most people are losers and liars, and no one can prove or disprove anyones credibility. The only way to really measure credibility in trading is with a long term real money track record. Very few people have one of those, and even less are willing to share it. Furthermore, the few that are really experts in the field are treated like dirt by a bunch of morons, chasing them away.

Just an observation.

 

[WS_MJH]

PSA: for all the guys in this thread who need hand holding, you'll going to have a very rough go of it as a trader. Kudos to Mav in creating yet another scintillating thread.

 

[hitnrun]

Hilojack

thanks for the feedback , i heard of similiar deals in the past

It's a grind to make money & if a trader is not disciplined , there toast

 

[satchel]

This thread is missing a key ingredient.

No combine proposition will work unless that trader has an edge. This thread should be in the Psychology forum, because if you have an edge and can't execute...then the combine is for you.

Whether it's Lincoln Park or Soldier's Field, if you can't stand in the pocket, find your open receiver and know that you need to release the ball before the linebacker gets to you and that you are probably going to get hit, then you are not executing under pressure...with your edge/talent.

A combine proposition that does not pre-select it's talent pool is like saying let's make the NBA combine open to all comers. Oh wait, if you are not invited it's pay <insert fee here> to participate. In the trading world that is churn and burn, combine owners make all the dough.

 

[hilojack]

Quote from hitnrun:

Hilojack

thanks for the feedback , i heard of similiar deals in the past

It's a grind to make money & if a trader is not disciplined , there toast

No worries. Trading is always a grind, but I suspect you know this already which puts you in the 90th percentile here. As opposed to those who think institutional investors are looking for the next Nostradamus and are willing to back every bozo who thinks they are the next greatest thing!

There really is nothing special about my deal and what I do, selfishly I am looking for traders who won't blow up and will allow me to continue to raise capital. If I help people along the way, all the better. But I make no guarantees and truly run a meritocracy.

Good luck to you in your endeavors.

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from satchel:

This thread is missing a key ingredient.

No combine proposition will work unless that trader has an edge. This thread should be in the Psychology forum, because if you have an edge and can't execute...then the combine is for you.

Whether it's Lincoln Park or Soldier's Field, if you can't stand in the pocket, find your open receiver and know that you need to release the ball before the linebacker gets to you and that you are probably going to get hit, then you are not executing under pressure...with your edge/talent.

A combine proposition that does not pre-select it's talent pool is like saying let's make the NBA combine open to all comers. Oh wait, if you are not invited it's pay <insert fee here> to participate. In the trading world that is churn and burn, combine owners make all the dough.

Satchel, this has all been discussed ad nausem on the other threads. Most of these guys CAN'T get "pre-selected. It's called a job interview. Most these guys wouldn't even get a return phone call from most of the prop firms in Chicago. So if they have no money to self fund and they can't get "hired" or "pre-selected" as you like to call it, what should they do? TST fills a small void in the space by letting guys "work" on their game and find their edge. I even suggested funding yourself after you do a few combines and you think you have something viable. TST is simply a very cheap way to get into the game and practice. That's all it is.

We also spent a "lot" of time going over the business model and I doubt TST is making shit yet on this operation. The point of this thread was to demonstrate how bad of a business model it is backing traders.

 

[justrading]

Quote from CoolTraderDude:

Sorry, but there are no experts on predicting random order flow. People who are qualified on the market are only qualified for a little while until their winning streak ends...

Damn, there go all my hopes and dreams, down the tubes with an almighty gurgle.

Hmm, I wonder how Victor Sperandeo and Marty Schwartz made their money.

 

[sle]

Maybe this was asked before, but what is the point of doing this for you, Mav? I understand that you are making some money on each of the training stages and maybe making a little on the PnL split once the trader goes live (assuming that your risk control is good enough). However, while I did not do the proper calculations, it does not sound to me like this can be a scalable business that would be worth the effort.

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from sle:

Maybe this was asked before, but what is the point of doing this for you, Mav? I understand that you are making some money on each of the training stages and maybe making a little on the PnL split once the trader goes live (assuming that your risk control is good enough). However, while I did not do the proper calculations, it does not sound to me like this can be a scalable business that would be worth the effort.

Sle, you figured it out. A few people before you as well, so group credit is given. I would NEVER do this. This was a mental exercise to prove a point. That backing traders is bad business period!!!!!

There were accusations on the other threads that somehow TST was making 750k a year running their combines. Of course that is preposterous. But I wanted to set out to show just how difficult this business was. Some guys picked up on it, most didn't. The only model I have EVER seen work with backing traders is when a firm already HAS an edge, whether it be market making, order flow, structured products, etc and they hire a guy to "execute" that edge.

All the other models where a guy shows up with some secret formula where he is going to make discretionary trading calls betting red or green with other people's money just doesn't work.

Yes, there are good discretionary traders out there. Many of them in fact. The problem is, it's too costly and risky to find them. Firms rather find an edge themselves and hire guys to execute it.

TST is in this weird space, almost like Donald Trump's Apprentice where they are trying to stay above water and finding a few diamonds in the rough. They are playing the game of large numbers and hoping if 500 or 1000 go through their combine, they might find 5 or 10 guys. Is it worth it? I don't know, but I believe in capitalism and they have every right to find out. I'm sure if it's not working they will keep a tight stop.

 

[justrading]

Quote from sle:

Maybe this was asked before, but what is the point of doing this for you, Mav? I understand that you are making some money on each of the training stages and maybe making a little on the PnL split once the trader goes live (assuming that your risk control is good enough). However, while I did not do the proper calculations, it does not sound to me like this can be a scalable business that would be worth the effort.

He is just putting out a theoretical model that he feels is how he would do it, as compared to the Patak model. He says and I think you and I would agree there are better ways to spend your time and invest your money.

Edit - Oops, Mav beat me to it.