Maverick74 and marketsurfer's TopstepTrader Combine (daily trade reports and journal)
- Thread starter TST_Hoag
- Start date
So roughly $900 profit from commission markup had this been a live account whether austin made or lost money.
Below is CL only, all days verbatim except for 10/12 (*) where initial peak equity +$3,100 by 8am est was run back down to net loss:
10/09: +1,920 / 16 contracts
10/10: +2,350 / 50 contracts
10/11: (-2,420) / 70 contracts
10/12: +3,100 / 24 contracts*
10/15: +3,920 / 40 contracts
10/16: (-470) / 40 contracts
10/18: +2,490 / 90 contracts
10/19: +3,870 / 90 contracts
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total: +14,760 net / 420 contracts = (2,100)
In this round of eight full sessions, commission cost was 12% of gross gains (16,860) or 14% of net trade results [2100 ~ 14760] however one wishes to view it.
Quite a bit of that was churn, trading past peak profits for the day in attempts to balance out poor ZS performance and/or attempts to keep "pace" with combine profit objective. I would expect going forward to cut round turns by 1/3 to 1/2 and maintain or improve daily results in that process. But I never want to hinder my thinking with trade cost concerns.
Days when the morning is a struggle and I've scratched thru 70 contracts for nil gain or loss, the reamaining 10 - 20 contracts can easily hit that one or two directional swings to wind up $2,000+ to $4,000+ in the end. Fixating on costs and worrying about "saving" $50 or $100 in turns can result in purposely missing $1,000s of realized gains on the other side. Cost concerns are important for scalpers and dead-chop symbols like ES where margins are razor thin.
CL trading is all about catching chunks of distance on larger size... while scratching out of sideways trades in smaller size. It requires a decidedly different attitude, one like the mindset of internet stock traders in the glory days of 1998 thru 2001. That pretty much describes CL trading from 1999 thru 2012 and beyond. It never changed... and it never will
They are also a concern when one is paying 20% higher than retail and trying to meet a profit objective. Consider had you finished with $11,100 and missed out on being funded due to this alone.
Does that really make you a bad trader that is really not worth backing ?
I understand your point perfectly, and don't disagree. I'm sure everyone hasd ideas about what could be done differently and why.
Fact is the combine parameters are what they are... we are free to take it or leave it at will. For me the trade costs should not be a factor or I did something wrong on my end. For others it could be a real difference maker, no doubt. I suppose that's where the custom parameters come into play. For me, I'll work the standard outline same as before and we'll see how it all unfolds.
If I miss by a few hundred bucks and trade costs were the difference... I'll surely remember this conversation :eek:
Quote from austinp:
Fixating on costs and worrying about "saving" $50 or $100 in turns can result in purposely missing $1,000s of realized gains on the other side. Cost concerns are important for scalpers and dead-chop symbols like ES where margins are razor thin.
CL trading is all about catching chunks of distance on larger size... while scratching out of sideways trades in smaller size. It requires a decidedly different attitude, one like the mindset of internet stock traders in the glory days of 1998 thru 2001. That pretty much describes CL trading from 1999 thru 2012 and beyond. It never changed... and it never will
I do agree with you here and as much as anything it comes down to your methodology. If you are looking for winners/losers in the -5 to +5 size costs matter a whole lot. imo if you are going to be trading with higher commissions you need to be moving your profit/loss targets out to compensate OR choose an instrument like CL which is very volatile.
I trade the FESX and it has a nice big thick tick, it's a lumbering beast, I look at the ES and get scared as it jumps around a lot compared to the FESX. Whenever I take a look at CL the DOM just looks spastic to me (bit that's just me), you can get blown 20 ticks in a split second, not good for me as as I shut down for the day if I ever lose 15 ticks in a session (I also shut down if if I hit +20 ticks).
I think the CL could be a good trade for the combine as it will to a certain extent suppress the high commissions if the correct targets/losses are used.
Good luck Austin, I am sure you can smash it if you stick to CL.
Hello everyone,
Well, it is over 150 pages later and I want to thank Marketsurfer and Maverick for their hard work in the market and allowing the public to view their performance in their 10 day Combine.
I think we all have a bit clearer picture of how hard trading is for all traders at all levels. It takes extreme focus and you can never take a day off of discipline.
TopstepTrader will be making a very cool announcement on Elite Trader here shortly that I think many of you will be interested in participating in. Our goal is to bring the forum together, helping one another, talking out your trading day and holding each other accountable, all while the TST scout team scouts for traders that are consistent, profitable, and disciplined in today's market.
Again, I do want to thank the three stand-up gentlemen, cooltraderdude, Maverick, and marketsurf for their dedication to the markets and honest accountable trading.
mp
Well, it is over 150 pages later and I want to thank Marketsurfer and Maverick for their hard work in the market and allowing the public to view their performance in their 10 day Combine.
I think we all have a bit clearer picture of how hard trading is for all traders at all levels. It takes extreme focus and you can never take a day off of discipline.
TopstepTrader will be making a very cool announcement on Elite Trader here shortly that I think many of you will be interested in participating in. Our goal is to bring the forum together, helping one another, talking out your trading day and holding each other accountable, all while the TST scout team scouts for traders that are consistent, profitable, and disciplined in today's market.
Again, I do want to thank the three stand-up gentlemen, cooltraderdude, Maverick, and marketsurf for their dedication to the markets and honest accountable trading.
mp
Thank you for the opportunity, Michael. It's great to finally see innovation like this in the biz-- rather than the same old regurgitated BS. Looking forward to seeing what you guys have on tap!
surf
surf
nothing is "easy" to trade per se... everybody has their preferences for symbols that behave in various ways. I happen to like the methodical wildness of CL, and that's not an oxymoron
Monday I'll begin a new combine, this time $100k version with 10-lots max and -$2,000 loss / +$8,500 profit objective, along with other usual parameters.
Turns out last time around I never used more than 10 CL contracts in a single trade, so that seems more than enough to work with here.
If I do my job every single day, remain patient & disciplined, all combine parameters will be easily met and/or exceeded. Now it's merely a matter of walking the talk... nothing more to say until then