Maverick74 and marketsurfer's TopstepTrader Combine (daily trade reports and journal)

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Today the Nov CL contract went fuzzy-buzz rollover mode, which we knew was going to happen soon. That untradable action soon proved itself such, and left me with ZS as the alternative. I almost traded NQ as well, which would have worked great because the two early buy signals soon worked more than +20pts higher in favor.

But anyways. I worked the ZS from both sides early and then short side only into the eventual slide. Price action itself was slower than watching two turtles mating, but eventually it reached our lower profit objectives where we exited right near current lows for the session.

Four trading days left: need to average +$2,500 daily to meet minimum profit objective, and we'll see how all the other criteria passes/fails the test.

May very well sit tomorrow's session completely out while CL completes the rollover process, because first session of the new month Dec contract will be wide-range and possibly large trend move.
 

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Boy, I was identified as a distraction to this thread, and yet it has gone way off the rails beyond my questions, and statements. I guess I look forward to being told to go away again. What a joke!
I thought the idea was that people with a commitiment and a journalistic point were going to try and see what they can do. Yet, when questioned they have the same excuses of every piker. "Oh, I didn't say I would commit full time", " oh, the parameters are not within mine", yet Patak has said repeatedly that they are willing to adapt the qualifications. I guess that would have required work that was beyond the scope of this pile of crap.
Cry me a river, and sell me another story. It sounds more and more like the stories I bought back in the late '90's about trading, and either a couple of accomplices or fakes going along with the story. I won't apologize for being wrong in my assumptions, as I have not seen any reason to. Because Surf is willing to host a party in NYC? What does that prove?
Peace to all, but I would hope even Surf and Mav can understand the level of questioning I ask, as I think they have made similiar statements over the years.
Bob
 
Quote from taclander:

Boy, I was identified as a distraction to this thread, and yet it has gone way off the rails beyond my questions, and statements. I guess I look forward to being told to go away again. What a joke!
I thought the idea was that people with a commitiment and a journalistic point were going to try and see what they can do. Yet, when questioned they have the same excuses of every piker. "Oh, I didn't say I would commit full time", " oh, the parameters are not within mine", yet Patak has said repeatedly that they are willing to adapt the qualifications. I guess that would have required work that was beyond the scope of this pile of crap.
Cry me a river, and sell me another story. It sounds more and more like the stories I bought back in the late '90's about trading, and either a couple of accomplices or fakes going along with the story. I won't apologize for being wrong in my assumptions, as I have not seen any reason to. Because Surf is willing to host a party in NYC? What does that prove?
Peace to all, but I would hope even Surf and Mav can understand the level of questioning I ask, as I think they have made similiar statements over the years.
Bob
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Why do you care?

Neither Mav or Surf are going to meet the performance, and neither paid for the combine nor were seeking funding. The TST fee is a redistribution from the lotto players to the underwriters.
 
Quote from atticus:

Why do you care?

Neither Mav or Surf are going to meet the performance, and neither paid for the combine nor were seeking funding. The TST fee is a redistribution from the lotto players to the underwriters.
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I don't disagree with your premise. I am saying that as a piker at one point, I think it is appropriate to identify to others who are just starting "ideas" that they should spend more time looking into, or better yet, learning trading, than pissing away money on the latest greatest idea/ scam in trading.
Nothing more, just been there and tired of the newest greatest "business" idea.
 
Quote from Pekelo:

Why don't we look at the whole deal from the backer's side? An uspide in split for the trader sure has to be a downside for the backer.

So let's say you get founded and start with the 60/40 split. Now if TST is not the backer they also have another split agreement with the backer, let's say 50/50. So both TST and the backer get 20-20% of the profits. Let's assume you doubled the money in a year (excellent performance), so the backer booked a 20% profit. Mind you, the backer only got 20% of a really good 100% return, which itself is kind of low, if I were the backer, but anyway...

So next year, based on your performance, you get the 80/20 split deal. Congrats! Now what does the backer get? Well, let's say he doubles his money at risk for one. And he also gets a worse deal for more risk. If you double the money again in the 2nd year, the backer gets exactly the same amount of profit (this time only 10% after the split) like in the previous year, although he risked twice as much money...

The bottom line is with your upside negotiable cause : It sucks for the backer. In real life, AFAIK, the more money a person manages, the less is his split, but he still makes more money because less % split on more money is still more profit...

Unless I am missing something, and I am happy to acknowledge if/when I am wrong...
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A few points you're missing:

1. TST generates fees from combines and memberships. They could also be splitting those fees with PTP (Patak Trading Partners), a.k.a. "the backer", so your assumptions have to take into consideration if the backer has fee arrangements from TST for revenues secured prior to funding anyone.

2. Once funded, a trader must maintain a "profit cushion" of $5,000 for 30k/50k accounts, and $10,000 for 100k/150k accounts. The backer has the potential loss of their percentage of distribution if the trader takes a haircut, which has a max cap per day. So the backer starts taking a realized loss only if the account goes below the "zero balance" (i.e. the starting balance of the funded accout).

3. It's already been stated repeatedly that the amount of traders who pass the combine is a relatively small percentage. If an upside negotiable clause is exercised, then it implies the funded trader is profitable, which of course implies that the trader has already built the profit cushion and is taking a distribution, which in turn gives the backer a passive revenue stream of 20% to 40% from the funded trader.
 
Quote from ScalperJoe:

A few points you're missing:
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1. This is an interesting version, but I don't think if I give Patak 1 million bucks to back a few traders, they would give me a profit share from the fees too. I was looking at backers as outsiders, not part of TST or Patak Trading.

2. I guess your point here is that the downside risk is limited for the backer. True, but the upside earning is going down as the trader gets more and more of the profit split.

3. As my example showed, if the trader gets to 80/20 split from 60/40, the backer needs to invest twice as much just to get the same amount as before.

One more thingy. Patak gives up very easily 10% of their split if you pay as a trader $350 for a psychological training. Sounds to me a really bad deal from the backer's POV, since I assume at least 5% of it is coming from his split/pocket.

Ask yourself as a backer, would you give up 5% of your profit split for $350? If the training is so valuable and also helps both sides, why TST doesn't provide it for free? Hell, if I were a backer, I would rather pay for it from my pocket (after all, it helps my trader, thus eventually my bottom line), then give up profit sharing...
 
Quote from taclander:

Nothing more, just been there and tired of the newest greatest "business" idea.
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Does anyone here remember when a year or two ago, some guy went viral with a fancy, cutting edge flash video showing traders and sports cars and jets and hi-rise buildings and all sorts of fantasy power-trip stuff for men? The premise was, "we aren't vendors, we are traders... and we're going to level the playing field... coming soon". Said video clip never described what was coming... the mesage was simply to "stay tuned".

All the pikers and even some veteran traders spread that blind presales video all over the web. It was(is) here in numerous threads, posted across a bunch of different trading blogs and forums, etc. Everyone went wet-dream orgasmic over that, said how it would create transparency with vendors, create offers of 3rd party backing to those who could really trade, etc.

I was one of the token few voices here and in my blog saying it was nothing more than a slick sales pitch for some type of retail offer to come. A bunch of (now dead) aliases here shouted me down. They were all orgasmic over something wonderful coming, and it was going to be free.

Well, the website behind that flashy flash video finally emerged and when it did, guess what? Just like I said, just like I told everyone so... it was a cheesy third-party vendor attempt from someone who cannot trade their own way out of a used portajohn at the local nascar race. "Just hook your real account up to our website and show how great you can trade" was the offer. That and sign up for their daily live rooms at $200+ and $300+ per month.

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The only reason some guys here are pissed now instead of equally jubilant would be for the fact that TST found a way to profit from traders while providing a benefit to them in the process. If the combine was free of charge, and everybody who crawled out from under rocks could start a new combine every day, this thread would be ten pages long at most. The only difference between TST and that asnine flash-video attempt at the same general concept is a paltry sign-up fee.

Well that, and professionalism behind TST versus some random schmoes who are better at creating blind sales excitement than actual trading profits. But I digress.

TST offers a free-will service to sign up and pay for, or ignore and move on with your life. How simple a fact is that to grasp? Of course there are a few terminally lifeless men in every message board who have nothing better to do than waste precious time obsessing over non-issues that don't concern them. Happens in every big message board known to man, regardless of subject matter.

So that's the crux of this whole topic. Blind jealousy that someone out there is profiting from the industry and others cannot. If it were free of charge, everyone would throw one big lovefest and goad every "vendor" into proving themselves there.

Please spare us all the blatant bullshit that voices of concern are worried about individuals out there. No individuals here who denigrate TST in this thread (or other threads) truly gives a shit about any other individual traders, because they don't share one iota of knowledge or information on how those hapless newbies can improve their trading.

The whole "saving traders from vendors" bullshit is nothing more than a strawman position of weakness in the argument. It's all pure jealousy of the profit model, and nothing else.

As for the "nobody gets funded" weakness? If indeed that were the case, sooner than later this whole program will implode on itself from several directions. Meanwhile, I see more evidence that traders actually get funded than anyone in here sees evidence of actual profitable traders posting consistently profitable trades in ANY other thread inside ET.
 
Quote from austinp:




So that's the crux of this whole topic. Blind jealousy that someone out there is profiting from the industry and others cannot. If it were free of charge, everyone would throw one big lovefest and goad every "vendor" into proving themselves there.

Please spare us all the blatant bullshit that voices of concern are worried about individuals out there. No individuals here who denigrate TST in this thread (or other threads) truly gives a shit about any other individual traders, because they don't share one iota of knowledge or information on how those hapless newbies can improve their trading.

The whole "saving traders from vendors" bullshit is nothing more than a strawman position of weakness in the argument. It's all pure jealousy of the profit model, and nothing else.

As for the "nobody gets funded" weakness? If indeed that were the case, sooner than later this whole program will implode on itself from several directions. Meanwhile, I see more evidence that traders actually get funded than anyone in here sees evidence of actual profitable traders posting consistently profitable trades in ANY other thread inside ET.
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I think Austin is on to something with this post. I have been here since 2002, on and off. When the surf report first started, I had a huge following of readers-- when I was just a trader learning a system and posting calls-- then, I was soon noticed by a large broker and several major vendor types, hired and started getting paid to write/consult... The paid writing and free blogging caught the attention of a hedge fund that brought me on board to do marketing/business development-- in other words, i turned my passion for the markets and writing into a solid business, although outside of trading but still closely associated.... THEN the haters started, man, i have been slammed and hated every which way on this board ( EVEN threatened with lawsuits) after readers discovered I was profiting. I only can surmise that Austin is correct about the jealousy and profit/success hatred as i experienced it....

With this said, TST is the first vendor that I have seen on ET that is actually adding value by funding some traders who can actually trade. I guess the hate vibe is part of the territory, but its truly unwarranted. Either test yourself in the controlled environment of the Combine or don't. The Combine has shot a hole through many carefully crafted master trader personas who refuse to participate for every bizarre reason under the sun. This is the likely reason for the negativity toward them. If you make claims of day trading skill, bring it on, the Combine is waiting. Otherwise you are BS'n yourself and everyone else.

regards, surf
 
Quote from austinp:

"Just hook your real account up to our website and show how great you can trade" was the offer. That and sign up for their daily live rooms at $200+ and $300+ per month.

**
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Hmm, that sounds familiar. Isn't that pretty much the proposition with TST? I am not claiming they are a fraud, all I want is the newer to trading and people who keep pissing away, as you point out; $200-300, a month on the lastest greatest, to do their own due diligence.
Go ahead and swear I have some evil intention, but the reality like most, I have been through that crap. You maybe the one who needs to grab a breath of fresh air. I don't hate someone because they are successful whether in trading or a trading business. I'm not looking to save the world, just thought it might be helpful to remind people to look for themselves and not just jump on the bandwagon because a couple of guys are doing it on ET. I am the first to admit I don't do a good job of getting to my might when typing and I end up probably going too far, for that I apologize.
 
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