Mattis Quits

[TreeFrogTrader]

Chief if Staff at DoD resigned yesterday or the day before after Trump suggests he can declare a state of emergency and have the military undertake building a border wall without congress.

You reported this just as Fake New Network would want. Good job. We would expect no less.

You make it sound as though he resigned because of trump's statement about the wall just because his resignation occurred AFTER Trump said that. Has Sweeny said that is the reason?

When the department head leaves, it is pretty much par for the course for senior staff to know someone new is coming and will have their own staff so it is a good time to move along. A lesson that your buddy Rod Rosencrock will learn soon after Barr comes in- or right after Mueller is mostly done.

 

[vanzandt]

Chief if Staff at DoD resigned yesterday or the day before after Trump suggests he can declare a state of emergency and have the military undertake building a border wall without congress.

Honestly, aside from the optics of the term "state of emergency"... why not let Trump dip into the $780 billion DOD purse and let him build his wall? I have said this from the start. 10 or 20 Billion is almost a rounding error in that black hole we call our defense budget. It'll never be missed. Someone here said that this would "put our nation at risk". Thats the dumbest thing I ever heard. They could trim a handful bloated pig projects just a teeny bit and have enough money to build a wall long enough to even keep the Canadians out.
Maybe I'm too naive. Seems like common sense though. Let the DOD budget thats already been allotted pay for it.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

Maybe I'm too naive. Seems like common sense though. Let the DOD budget thats already been allotted pay for it.

Oh, the dems have no concern about the amount or where to find it.

Their concern is that Trump will be able to point to a wall during the campaign and they must stop that. At no point do illegals crossing the border or the fate of daca's enter into their thinking.

You know - I think he is gone now- but there was this longterm hispanic bloviator congressmen Louis Guitterez/sp. Always, a gasbag, all bloviating all the time but at least he honestly wanted something for hispanics, duh- unlike the Plantation owners at the DNC. I saw him on Fake News one day and they pressed him on the wall to try to get him to say big sorry arse anti-Trump things but he said "I will help build the wall myself if it will save the daca's." I thought, whoa, ride em cowboy. Not something you gonna hear out of Pelosi-ville or the DNC.

Yup, and he has since resigned and moved to/moving to Puerto Rico to do a big hispanic/viva puerto rico routine there and he is to the left of Che Guevera, but, whatever. My point is that there is not a lot of looking out for hispanics going on in the dem party, it is all positioning dems for the next election. Louis knows that. Louis is trying to become the Simon Bolivar of Puerto Rico. That's fine. He is working his own political future too but at least he is trying to do it by advocating for his constituents along the way- yeh, novel idea- and most likely a dna test will show that he is actually hispanic- just guessing. (little joke there).

Frigging Dem Party is working against anything that would get the wall built or anything that get a settlement for the daca's. They want and need problems to run on in 2020.

 

[vanzandt]

Oh, the dems have no concern about the amount or where to find it.

Their concern is that Trump will be able to point to a wall during the campaign and they must stop that. At no point do illegals crossing the border or the fate of daca's enter into their thinking.

You know - I think he is gone now- but there was this longterm hispanic bloviator congressmen Louis Guitterez/sp. Always, a gasbag, all bloviating all the time but at least he honestly wanted something for hispanics, duh- unlike the Plantation owners at the DNC. I saw him on Fake News one day and they pressed him on the wall to try to get him to say big sorry arse anti-Trump things but he said "I will help build the wall myself if it will save the daca's." I thought, whoa, ride em cowboy. Not something you gonna hear out of Pelosi-ville or the DNC.

Yup, and he has since resigned and moved to/moving to Puerto Rico to do a big hispanic rights routine there and he is to the left of Che Guevera, but, whatever. My point is that there is not a lot of looking out for hispanics going on in the dem party, it is all positioning dems for the next election. Louis knows that. Louis is trying to become the Simon Bolivar of Puerto Rico. That's fine.

That would certainly seem to be the case. Its unfortunate. Nothing is going to get done for the next two years. Its all going to be about damaging Trump. Stupid.

I have to ask though... would a wall be truly effective? Do any of the posters here even have enough expertise to articulate an informed opinion based on their personal knowledge, not that which is derived from the MSM Trump hating firehose? I know I don't.

Seems like it would be pretty easy to circumvent, but I'm not on the border daily witnessing whats actually going on. I know the one fellow that spoke at Trump's press conference the other day, when he had the three bald clone guys behind him, was certainly qualified to speak on the subject. He said unequivocally that it would make a huge difference. Okay... I will listen to someone like that.

Either way, Trump should just say F it, re-open the govt., declare it a national emergency, skim some fat from DOD, and let the Army Corp of Engineers have at it.

Of course BA, LMT, GD and the rest will scream foul. Especially if 75% of the cost is just good old pre-cast concrete wall panels. Or steel. Their measly 25% of the tech involved will really piss em off. You can bet BA wants a "virtual" solution. Until they open a concrete and steel division.

Give Trump his wall. Give the Dems the Dreamers. At this point, I think the base knows he's doing all he can do and the Dems' efforts to alienate the swing voters just might backfire on em.

The money's there:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

That would certainly seem to be the case. Its unfortunate. Nothing is going to get done for the next two years. Its all going to be about damaging Trump. Stupid.

I have to ask though... would a wall be truly effective? Do any of the posters here even have enough expertise to articulate an informed opinion based on their personal knowledge, not that which is derived from the MSM Trump hating firehose? I know I don't.

Seems like it would be pretty easy to circumvent, but I'm not on the border daily witnessing whats actually going on. I know the one fellow that spoke at Trump's press conference the other day, when he had the three bald clone guys behind him, was certainly qualified to speak on the subject. He said unequivocally that it would make a huge difference. Okay... I will listen to someone like that.

Either way, Trump should just say F it, re-open the govt., declare it a national emergency, skim some fat from DOD, and let the Army Corp of Engineers have at it.

Of course BA, LMT, GD and the rest will scream foul. Especially if 75% of the cost is just good old pre-cast concrete wall panels. Or steel. Their measly 25% of the tech involved will really piss em off. You can bet BA wants a "virtual" solution. Until they open a concrete and steel division.

Give Trump his wall. Give the Dems the Dreamers. At this point, I think the base knows he's doing all he can do and the Dems' efforts to alienate the swing voters just might backfire on em.

The money's there:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would be opposed to giving up anything for the dreamers as part of this little go-around.

The dreamer thing would have to be part of a comprehensive immigration ill that included fixing the asylum laws and chain migration issue and so on.

Although every trade you make is a calculated risk, I go on the probability that the court will affirm the presidents power to end an executive order, although require him to follow the administrative procedures act in winding it down, blah, blah, blah. That puts him in control. The dems dont want it fixed anyway, so whatever.

But -unlike hardcore conservatives- I accept the fact that we have to dicker on daca at some point, but no frigging way would I give it up on some piddling little budget showdown such as the one going on now. Let the blood flow.

I would also exchange a large part of the wall funding- but not all- in return for an amendment to the law which would require asylum seekers to come through legal ports of entry. Trump says that must now, but the law says otherwise and our policy in processing them assumes they can demand asylum even after they are apprehended later after an illegal entry. The wall without changing the law helps with the surges and all of that but without changing the law to go with it we still leave the welcome mat down which is the root of the problem.

I am moderate on the issue of building the wall. I have no doubt whatsoever that it is needed in many sections but am opposed to just building it coast to coast to fulfill a campaign promise. However, I still want to see more funding for those sections that do not have a wall to enhance security by other means. I am outcome oriented. If space satellites are needed, fine. If hiring Apache scouts on horseback and giving them a free ticket to the buffet at the Casino for every illegal spotted works, then that is fine too.

 

[vanzandt]

. Let the blood flow.

I predicted last week before it made the headlines... TSA is going to be straw that breaks the Camel's(s) back. That is going to hit millions of Americans. TSA personnel don't make that much, they live paycheck to paycheck. If they walk out.... or take other jobs out of necessity, it will cripple our economy. Its not going to be like PATCO. Turnover and training time is already high. PATCO had high paying jobs. They had 45K applicants in a month. TSA can't even hire people now. Its a sh*t job. Sure they'll keep the airports open using supervisors etc, but it will sting bad. If Americans are anything, they are impatient AF. Wait till the lines at Reagan National, LaGuardia, and LAX are 6-8 hours long. People are going to be screaming to give Trump his wall if he doesn't blink.

I agree on chain-migration, but the dreamers are already here using the system. Those costs are baked in at this point. Let em stay. I think thats the right thing to do anyway. A kid that has been here their entire life deserves to stay. Right or wrong, it wasn't their fault. Throw the Dems a bone and lets get back to running the country. Wishful thinking I know.

Edit: And I agree with what you additionally wrote about changing the laws. That has to happen too.

 

[Cuddles]

That would certainly seem to be the case. Its unfortunate. Nothing is going to get done for the next two years. Its all going to be about damaging Trump. Stupid.

I have to ask though... would a wall be truly effective? Do any of the posters here even have enough expertise to articulate an informed opinion based on their personal knowledge, not that which is derived from the MSM Trump hating firehose? I know I don't.

Seems like it would be pretty easy to circumvent, but I'm not on the border daily witnessing whats actually going on. I know the one fellow that spoke at Trump's press conference the other day, when he had the three bald clone guys behind him, was certainly qualified to speak on the subject. He said unequivocally that it would make a huge difference. Okay... I will listen to someone like that.

Either way, Trump should just say F it, re-open the govt., declare it a national emergency, skim some fat from DOD, and let the Army Corp of Engineers have at it.

Of course BA, LMT, GD and the rest will scream foul. Especially if 75% of the cost is just good old pre-cast concrete wall panels. Or steel. Their measly 25% of the tech involved will really piss em off. You can bet BA wants a "virtual" solution. Until they open a concrete and steel division.

Give Trump his wall. Give the Dems the Dreamers. At this point, I think the base knows he's doing all he can do and the Dems' efforts to alienate the swing voters just might backfire on em.

The money's there:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The problem is unchecked and unfettered power of the executive if he can just declare state of emergency all willy nilly over something that clearly is not a national emergency; this is how we end up with martial law. We've already got military officers resigning over the suggestion. Look at the shit show he's caused over "national security tariffs". What's next, national emergency to dismantle Congress?

The opposition to the wall would've been much less had he called it a fence and not used it to pitch the population against one another. It's become a symbol of more than just security, and it was a gimmick to galvanize his base (his own campaign has admitted it). This is why both Bush and Obama have been far more successful at building fencing across the border, because they didn't make it a "we hate those guys over there" argument.

The problem with a fence is that it creates a false sense of security on its own. It merely slows down a determined crosser and is useless without patrolling, so making it the hallmark of border security is asinine. Had he pushed for personnel and a barrier as "aiding" element, he'd had some appropriations by now.

The wall is much more useful not getting built and as a campaign device for Trump to pitch against Democrats.

 

[Tony Stark]

People are going to be screaming to give Trump his wall if he doesn't blink.

People are going to be screaming to impeach Trump or override his veto.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

The problem is unchecked and unfettered power of the executive if he can just declare state of emergency all willy nilly over something that clearly is not a national emergency; this is how we end up with martial law. We've already got military officers resigning over the suggestion. Look at the shit show he's caused over "national security tariffs". What's next, national emergency to dismantle Congress?

The opposition to the wall would've been much less had he called it a fence and not used it to pitch the population against one another. It's become a symbol of more than just security, and it was a gimmick to galvanize his base (his own campaign has admitted it). This is why both Bush and Obama have been far more successful at building fencing across the border, because they didn't make it a "we hate those guys over there" argument.

The problem with a fence is that it creates a false sense of security on its own. It merely slows down a determined crosser and is useless without patrolling, so making it the hallmark of border security is asinine. Had he pushed for personnel and a barrier as "aiding" element, he'd had some appropriations by now.

The wall is much more useful not getting built and as a campaign device for Trump to pitch against Democrats.

Let's see now.

Caravans and increasing levels of surges in the immediate future, and butt-hurt generals resigning because they dont like trump assigning troops to the border and then they dont like trump reserving the right to declare an emergency at the border.

Bye, bye then.

The President has a constitutional duty to protect the country.

We have gone through periods where the lefties complain that trump listens only to generals and surrounds himself with just generals and is not able to stand up to them. And now everyone is butthurt because he sees a higher duty than just appeasing the generals.

Wait til he closes the border. You will be on a heart-lung machine.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

I predicted last week before it made the headlines... TSA is going to be straw that breaks the Camel's(s) back. That is going to hit millions of Americans. TSA personnel don't make that much, they live paycheck to paycheck. If they walk out.... or take other jobs out of necessity, it will cripple our economy. Its not going to be like PATCO. Turnover and training time is already high. PATCO had high paying jobs. They had 45K applicants in a month. TSA can't even hire people now. Its a sh*t job. Sure they'll keep the airports open using supervisors etc, but it will sting bad. If Americans are anything, they are impatient AF. Wait till the lines at Reagan National, LaGuardia, and LAX are 6-8 hours long. People are going to be screaming to give Trump his wall if he doesn't blink.

I agree on chain-migration, but the dreamers are already here using the system. Those costs are baked in at this point. Let em stay. I think thats the right thing to do anyway. A kid that has been here their entire life deserves to stay. Right or wrong, it wasn't their fault. Throw the Dems a bone and lets get back to running the country. Wishful thinking I know.

Edit: And I agree with what you additionally wrote about changing the laws. That has to happen too.

The TSA point is valid. It is one of the mostly likely areas where there will be an immediate blow-out.

Except the republicans and trump are likely to deal with it by doing a carve-out and agreeing to a special authorization to fund it, separate from the larger stand-off. Then if the dems dont vote for it......well....then.......they have that to deal with.

Trump should hunt around and find special funding for them anyway, as he did for the coast guard- not because the pressure is building but because TSA is part of our border control/immigration control process- duh. and his whole goal is to tighten up there.