as this thread has now well established the allegorical nature of the writings, i trust it is not necessary to go through the laborious process of showing how two groups can claim share a common book - and end up in completely different places.
Laborious enough thanks - simply confirming the meanings of words with you. No need to put yourself out any further. I did not suggest two groups have not or could not end up in completely different places . So why bring it up?
the jewish conception of g-d is completely different from the c'ian one - even Shoe would agree that, since (according to him) c'ians have a common perception of g-d and jews don't.
I wouldn't bet on shoe agreeing with anything, including what he says himself.
God the creator of heaven and earth. the jewish conception of g_d or whatever you call it, is NOT of the old testament ..is not the creator of heaven and earth??? I think you might find that is news to a lot of jewish people. But ok, say the perception is TOTALLY different. My point is you would have to have NO perception of a deity whatsoever and which you did not attribute any devotion to whatsoever...but wouldn't you be in the area of the atheist if that were the case?? ..please continue...
apart from that, you are missing a very fundamental point: Torah/Tanakh are not scripture to jews in the sense c'ians generally claim they are scripture to them. they are, in fact, arguably the least important part of Jewish tradition. so we do not, in fact, share a common scriptural base with c'ianity.
You share a common original core deity whether you personally like the idea or not, it's an historical fact. You may want to add your Torah/Tanakh or whatever, it doesn't change that historical fact.
...you are missing the point. i did not say there aren't similarities between judaism and c'ianity. what i said was the similiarities between the two are no greater than the similarities between judaism and any number of other faiths.
very big difference.
if you had said "islamo christo jewish", you would have more leg to stand on.
So now it becomes a matter of degree for you. Well ok that's some sort of progress I guess.
The similarities are a common core deity from the same book, the same creator of heaven and earth.
Which is it now?? You were offended that I referred to the term judeo-christian, now you say there are similarities between judaism and christianity... so do I take it you are no longer offended by the term ?!? Well fine...but that still does not change one jot, the definition of the word religionist when applied to a jew or any one else.
stu:
The very fact that a religionist manifests devotion to a deity makes them a religionist.
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yes, i understand, and this is where your definition falls apart. you are willing to accept some Jews as religionists because they do affirm belief in a deity but you then cannot accept Judaism as a religion because it does NOT require such a belief.
Right so let me tidy this up a little if I can....
Are you really saying... a christian will be a religionist because..... the christian has a religion.
but a Jew will not be a religionist because...the jewish person... does NOT have a religion which requires God or G_d.
But I don't care about that I never said I did... it's devotion/belief of/in ONE GOD..
a deity!! I referred to as being religionist
If some Jews can/are religionists but Judaism is not a religion, then FINE, but just as a matter of interest.. what exactly is judaism if it is not a recognized name for the religion practiced by jews ????
Ok damir.. you make up your own rules for religions and definitions. But I think you will have a hell of a time convincing Jews who practice Judaism that they don't practice a religion based upon the old testament
and the Talmud.
And last time I heard Judaism was still monotheistic.
Jews are religionists if they practice/support/proclaim monotheism. I really do not see why you feel you must insist on having a problem with this. Practicing/expressing/manifesting a devotion/devoutness/veneration to
a (one) deity, whether is it called God G_d or Jesus makes the person a religionist whether practicing judaism christianity or whatever.
So I confirm again
It is the religionist who demands one true God, no arguments,.....stands as correct.
the Bible as a sacrosanct word of God ... stands as correct for the christian apologists,, which was in context to the Christ sin thing I was directly referring to at the time
Do you not feel you have sidetracked this enough yet?
everyone - this "religionist" is shutting down the network and taking a full 24 hour Pause That Refreshes.