It could just be long term traders getting out. Hi volume, lots of chop and up trend starting to bend could mean the public is all in...... :eek:
Massive surge in trading volumes, say brokers.
- Thread starter Grandluxe
- Start date
It could just be long term traders getting out. Hi volume, lots of chop and up trend starting to bend could mean the public is all in...... :eek:
Then who are the idiots selling to these lower bidders? can you give us any examples as what you're saying doesn't sound right, I'd like to check it out myself on T&S.
what's the point of this "exercise"? you don't believe it? one more time-you hide your order-you lose any priority. you display your order-"they" will subpenny you,if you right about upcoming price move.
now-in order for you to get a fill-the trade should take a place at exchange,where you order is sitting. mean-the seller for whatever reason have to route his order to this market center. according to this lewis guy-we have over 80 various exchanges,dark pools,ecn's etc.one more time-they all trade same shares,same 3000 or so companies,that use traded at NYSE,NASDAQ. the more exchanges-the less your chances you have to get any shares. how difficult this to understand?
there is nothing really special about this situation,where they can and will trade trough. bidder can sit on some other exchange and seller routing engine simply sends his order to that exchange. if you not in this exchange with your hidden order-no match,no fill. when you submit your order(to buy)-really smart routing should analyze,where best NBBO is now and send your order to this market center. but again-many of them aren't paying any commissions and fees,might see upcoming order and can change\spread up the orders across multiple exchanges in a fraction of a second,if they sniff even a slight sign of competition. IB's smart is not so smart. from my experience -it's just dumps all hidden orders to the ISLAND.
i was thinking about solution that would improve my fill ratio,but not sure,if it worth it at this point. it have to be something like this-you request a data from all sources separately via API,you have to figure out where is best bid is sitting(at what exchange) and then(assuming that they do accept hidden orders and they are native to exchange)-you either: route your order via API to that exchange and get charged extra fee or -submit it as a smart and hoping(bad word in trading) that you order will be routed to a same exchange.btw-there is no way to analyze,if you order was routed to the correct exchange either. cause API doesn't report where your order is routed,if submitted as smart. one will need a combo or recorded live data + analysts of his own audit file at EOD to get an idea of how his orders are handled by IB system.. was it worth it? to me-probably not.
even if i do all above-from what i've seen-HFT can and will scan every price level at every exchange in a fraction of a second. if you need a perfect example of how quick they do that-try to submit your order in premarket in situation,where there is a imbalance at open. and see how long will it take. instant fill and open price will be far away from you,causing instant loss. i've seen it many times.
ps-i'm not talking about futures or super liqud etf's. i'm talking about low\average volume common stocks. 50-250K a day shares average
Bull markets are great at producing Lucky Fools, and this one has deluded its fair share. A good trader adapts to changing market conditions, not easy by any means and in case anyone hasn't noticed yet, the tenor of the market has changed from 2013. When things stop working go small and revaluate. So easy to say, so hard to do, especially if you have been riding the bull for the entirety of your short trading life.
I agree with Bob111, it not possible to provide liquidity anymore (like it was 4-5 years ago). Well, it is possible--half of all trades are providing liquidity, duh-- but unless you are operating an advanced, colocated HFT style algo, providing liquidity is a losing proposition. It is better to take liquidity and pay for the spread up front.
Also, I think it is really sad that most retailers don't realize their trades are not really direct market access. Here is a test that every retailer should do: At a time when the market is thin, put in an even lot (100 shares) limit order while watching the level 2 data at that price point. If you do not see that price point show 100 more shares of liquidity than it previously was, you're shares might be traded in a "dark pool," or, your retailer *might* be performing a sophisticated strategy to ensure you get the best price. It is really difficult to say without looking closely at your fills.
Also, I think it is really sad that most retailers don't realize their trades are not really direct market access. Here is a test that every retailer should do: At a time when the market is thin, put in an even lot (100 shares) limit order while watching the level 2 data at that price point. If you do not see that price point show 100 more shares of liquidity than it previously was, you're shares might be traded in a "dark pool," or, your retailer *might* be performing a sophisticated strategy to ensure you get the best price. It is really difficult to say without looking closely at your fills.
I think I have mentioned this to Bob before as well. I used to trade small cap equities and it's hard to get filled nowadays. If you get filled, it goes against you and stops you out. It's called lose-lose.
Secondly, sectors have become very correlated to the broader index. Various sectors now have incredible systemic risk. If you are not able to isolate that, then your edge is kaput, might as well just trade ES.
Dunno if that's due to HFT or general risk averse behaviour.
Some funny things are going on, that's for sure.
SMART just directs your order depending on the parameters you give it, there is no magic involved.
Whenever I submit an order through SMART, I can see where the order is routed, so that claim is false.
I'd like to see an example though, just the exact time of one trade to verify for myself.
Trading at the open is different, sounds like you were describing the opening auction, those orders can be on your side or go against you. Sounds like your orders are too big for the OPG process, therefore moving the price - in those situations obviously the price will move against you after open.
It's possible you're putting on trades that are way too big, therefore attracting HFT attention and moving the market.
being IB user for over a decade i know that you can see in tws where your order is routed. what i'm saying is -you can't get this info via api.
example: NBBO bid is 100x 10(at BATS) ,ask -1000X 10.25 (at ARCA)- place my HIDDEN order to buy 100 shares at 10.10 as smart and it was routed to island.
question-does this increases my chances to get filled or i might be better off if my order routed to BATS,where best bid sits at this time?
example: NBBO bid is 100x 10(at BATS) ,ask -1000X 10.25 (at ARCA)- place my HIDDEN order to buy 100 shares at 10.10 as smart and it was routed to island.
question-does this increases my chances to get filled or i might be better off if my order routed to BATS,where best bid sits at this time?