Maryland Learns Tax Incentives For Hollywood A Loser For Taxpayers

gwb-trading · Jan 21, 2015

fhl said:
The point is, that the state of NC film office is not the state auditor. It is just like the other state film offices that projected huge investment returns that all turned out to be bogus when the auditor audited them. The state of NC film office gets their projections from the film industry just like other states.

The audit is performed by the North Carolina Department of Revenue regarding the film spending showing the qualifying spending which received tax credits.

Here is the 2012 audit report - http://dornc.com/publications/incentives/2013/01film_credits_12summary.pdf

Here is the 2013 audit report - http://www.dornc.com/publications/incentives/2014/film_2013_summary_report.pdf

2014 is not out yet.

Also here is the summary from the North Carolina Commerce Department.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/site-docs/cj/film-impact.pdf

Here is a summary from the Under The Dome economic impact -
http://nchollywood.com/2014/10/10/under-the-dome-will-return-to-north-carolina-for-season-3/
"In 2013, audit reports by the North Carolina Department of Revenue show the series had a direct in-state spend of more $33.3 million while employing a total of 1500 individuals."

Here is a mid-2014 article from the News & Observer

New reports show effect of sweetened subsidy for film industry in NC
http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/04/30/3824068_new-reports-show-effect-of-sweetened.html?rh=1

On the other side, here is an old report from the John Locke conservative foundation which is very critical of the NC Film credits.
http://www.johnlocke.org/acrobat/spotlights/Spotlight425FilmTaxIncentives.pdf

IMO the bottom line is that the Republicans cannot support tax credits for two dozen other industries that obviously are money losers for the state (the credit payout is much greater than the economic benefit for the state) while not supporting a tax credit for film industry which the audit reports show a clear economic enhancement for the state that is larger than the tax credit payout.

fhl · Jan 21, 2015

gwb-trading said:
The audit is performed by the North Carolina Department of Revenue regarding the film spending showing the qualifying spending which received tax credits.

Here is the 2012 audit report - http://dornc.com/publications/incentives/2013/01film_credits_12summary.pdf

Here is the 2013 audit report - http://www.dornc.com/publications/incentives/2014/film_2013_summary_report.pdf

2014 is not out yet.

Also here is the summary from the North Carolina Commerce Department.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/site-docs/cj/film-impact.pdf

Here is a summary from the Under The Dome economic impact -
http://nchollywood.com/2014/10/10/under-the-dome-will-return-to-north-carolina-for-season-3/
"In 2013, audit reports by the North Carolina Department of Revenue show the series had a direct in-state spend of more $33.3 million while employing a total of 1500 individuals."

Here is a mid-2014 article from the News & Observer

New reports show effect of sweetened subsidy for film industry in NC
http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/04/30/3824068_new-reports-show-effect-of-sweetened.html?rh=1

On the other side, here is an old report from the John Locke conservative foundation which is very critical of the NC Film credits.
http://www.johnlocke.org/acrobat/spotlights/Spotlight425FilmTaxIncentives.pdf

IMO the bottom line is that the Republicans cannot support tax credits for two dozen other industries that obviously are money losers for the state (the credit payout is much greater than the economic benefit for the state) while not supporting a tax credit for film industry which the audit reports show a clear economic enhancement for the state that is larger than the tax credit payout.

The North Carolina dept of revenue report only pertains to whether the credit was given to an actual project. Not whether it returned in taxes what the film industry projected.

The North Carolina dept of Commerce report speaks of projections on the impact on North Carolina and says it comes from some models. These are the same projections that come from the film industry, as far as I can tell. The state film assn is part of the economic development commission which is part of the dept of commerce.

The only audit that matters is an audit from the NC auditors office. And there are no reports from them that I see. Until they subject this spending to an audit, it is no different from any other state making projections that didn't pan out when the state auditor investigated.

And I would once again state that if other state's auditors have determined these credits are a massive waste, then an audit from NC showing a large return would be very suspect.

AAAintheBeltway · Jan 21, 2015

gwb, what was the rationale used by the republicans to justify this yet leave other subsidies in place? I spend a lot of time in NC, so I know the N&O is utterly worthless as a credible source. Ditto state departments that are run by heldover democrats.

Ricter · Jan 21, 2015

AAAintheBeltway said:
gwb, what was the rationale used by the republicans to justify this yet leave other subsidies in place? I spend a lot of time in NC, so I know the N&O is utterly worthless as a credible source. Ditto state departments that are run by heldover democrats.

Gwb, we need more sources!

gwb-trading · Jan 21, 2015

AAAintheBeltway said:
gwb, what was the rationale used by the republicans to justify this yet leave other subsidies in place? I spend a lot of time in NC, so I know the N&O is utterly worthless as a credible source. Ditto state departments that are run by heldover democrats.

First let me address your comments about the News & Observer. I concur the paper leans to the left. However the N&O does some of the finest investigative reporting that I have seen. Most of the Democratic politicians in North Carolina that have been locked up in prison or removed from office have been the subjects of investigative reporting from the N&O that led to their demise. As examples, I will point to the reporting about Jim Black, the Democratic legislative leader now in prison, and the removal of Democrat Tracy Cline as Durham Prosecutor after the Twisted Truth series in the N&O (http://www.newsobserver.com/twisted-truth/)
Part 1 starts here - http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/09/04/1459697_clines-courtroom-actions-lead.html?rh=1

The N&O has also done investigative series on hog farms dumping waste in our rivers that led to reforms and other deeply detailed reporting that drove changes in the government. As well as the recent UNC academic scandal where athletes were steered to no-show AFAM studies classes.

To your question about the other subsidies that are still in place. Subsidies are driven by lobbying of the state legislature by industries. Most of the industry-specific business tax breaks in North Carolina have been in place for many years before the Republicans took over in 2010. The tax breaks for Fracking operations and Duke Power are new. Gov McCrory is a former lawyer for Duke Power. The energy industry has poured in enormous amounts of money in campaign donations to Republican legislators - outstripping all other sources of campaign donations to Republican legislative candidates combined in the recent election cycle. You get what you pay for.

The conservatives in North Carolina have always had a hard-on for the Film Industry tax credit because "they don't like Hollywood" (that is a direct quote from a Republican legislator). Therefore they eliminated the Film tax credit. They replaced it with a system that will only grant film tax credits (of much lower amounts) to film projects that are approved by a board of conservatives appointed by the state legislature. They made it quite clear that they would not be approving any mainstream projects - the only project about to be presented to this board is a religious film being created by the Baptist Church. Hollywood need not apply.

At this point every single film or TV production has left the state or has announced plans to leave the state. This has left a minimum of 4000 people unemployed.

North Carolina is not unique in provided targeted business tax breaks to particular industries. Nearly every state in the U.S. does this - all of it is driven by campaign donations from the particular industries.

Ricter · Jan 21, 2015

gwb-trading said:
First let me address your comments about the News & Observer. I concur the paper leans to the left. However the N&O does some of the finest investigative reporting that I have seen. Most of the Democratic politicians in North Carolina that have been locked up in prison or removed from office have been the subjects of investigative reporting from the N&O that led to their demise. As examples, I will point to the reporting about Jim Black, the Democratic legislative leader now in prison, and the removal of Democrat Tracy Cline as Durham Prosecutor after the Twisted Truth series in the N&O (http://www.newsobserver.com/twisted-truth/)
Part 1 starts here - http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/09/04/1459697_clines-courtroom-actions-lead.html?rh=1

The N&O has also done investigative series on hog farms dumping waste in our rivers that led to reforms and other deeply detailed reporting that drove changes in the government. As well as the recent UNC academic scandal where athletes were steered to no-show AFAM studies classes.

To your question about the other subsidies that are still in place. Subsidies are driven by lobbying of the state legislature by industries. Most of the industry-specific business tax breaks in North Carolina have been in place for many years before the Republicans took over in 2010. The tax breaks for Fracking operations and Duke Power are new. Gov McCrory is a former lawyer for Duke Power. The energy industry has poured in enormous amounts of money in campaign donations to Republican legislators - outstripping all other sources of campaign donations to Republican legislative candidates combined in the recent election cycle. You get what you pay for.

The conservatives in North Carolina have always had a hard-on for the Film Industry tax credit because "they don't like Hollywood" (that is a direct quote from a Republican legislator). Therefore they eliminated the Film tax credit. They replaced it with a system that will only grant film tax credits (of much lower amounts) to film projects that are approved by a board of conservatives appointed by the state legislature. They made it quite clear that they would not be approving any mainstream projects - the only project about to be presented to this board is a religious film being created by the Baptist Church. Hollywood need not apply.

At this point every single film or TV production has left the state or has announced plans to leave the state. This has left a minimum of 4000 people unemployed.

North Carolina is not unique in provided targeted business tax breaks to particular industries. Nearly every state in the U.S. does this - all of it is driven by campaign donations from the particular industries.

Max E. · Jan 22, 2015

Ricter said:

Just remember for every guy who makes moves like that look good, there is a graveyard full of people who failed at it.

fhl · Feb 3, 2015

gwb-trading said:
First let me address your comments about the News & Observer. I concur the paper leans to the left. However the N&O does some of the finest investigative reporting that I have seen. Most of the Democratic politicians in North Carolina that have been locked up in prison or removed from office have been the subjects of investigative reporting from the N&O that led to their demise. As examples, I will point to the reporting about Jim Black, the Democratic legislative leader now in prison, and the removal of Democrat Tracy Cline as Durham Prosecutor after the Twisted Truth series in the N&O (http://www.newsobserver.com/twisted-truth/)
Part 1 starts here - http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/09/04/1459697_clines-courtroom-actions-lead.html?rh=1

The N&O has also done investigative series on hog farms dumping waste in our rivers that led to reforms and other deeply detailed reporting that drove changes in the government. As well as the recent UNC academic scandal where athletes were steered to no-show AFAM studies classes.

To your question about the other subsidies that are still in place. Subsidies are driven by lobbying of the state legislature by industries. Most of the industry-specific business tax breaks in North Carolina have been in place for many years before the Republicans took over in 2010. The tax breaks for Fracking operations and Duke Power are new. Gov McCrory is a former lawyer for Duke Power. The energy industry has poured in enormous amounts of money in campaign donations to Republican legislators - outstripping all other sources of campaign donations to Republican legislative candidates combined in the recent election cycle. You get what you pay for.

The conservatives in North Carolina have always had a hard-on for the Film Industry tax credit because "they don't like Hollywood" (that is a direct quote from a Republican legislator). Therefore they eliminated the Film tax credit. They replaced it with a system that will only grant film tax credits (of much lower amounts) to film projects that are approved by a board of conservatives appointed by the state legislature. They made it quite clear that they would not be approving any mainstream projects - the only project about to be presented to this board is a religious film being created by the Baptist Church. Hollywood need not apply.

At this point every single film or TV production has left the state or has announced plans to leave the state. This has left a minimum of 4000 people unemployed.

North Carolina is not unique in provided targeted business tax breaks to particular industries. Nearly every state in the U.S. does this - all of it is driven by campaign donations from the particular industries.

Yes, of course. When the republicans in NC got rid of the film industry subsidies, it had nothing to do with the fact that other states who actually audited these same kind of giveaways found that they were a massive waste of money for their states. The return on investment was minus 85%, not the doubling of taxpayer funds that the film industry and the state film association projected.

The film industry projections are no different than the global warming industries projections which never seem to come true.

gwb-trading · Feb 3, 2015

fhl said:
Yes, of course. When the republicans in NC got rid of the film industry subsidies, it had nothing to do with the fact that other states who actually audited these same kind of giveaways found that they were a massive waste of money for their states. The return on investment was minus 85%, not the doubling of taxpayer funds that the film industry and the state film association projected.

The film industry projections are no different than the global warming industries projections which never seem to come true.

Indeed... the very characters who claim that the ROI on Film tax credits is -85% are the same characters who are more than willing to put up hundreds of million in tax free funding for their favorite professional teams.

But of course... the Republicans in North Carolina bring a very special kind of stupid to the table... here is Tillis saying the Hand-washing policy for staff at Restaurants should be up to the business - http://www.wral.com/tillis-hand-washing-policy-should-be-up-to-businesses/14417667/

Ricter · Feb 3, 2015

gwb-trading said:
Indeed... the very characters who claim that the ROI on Film tax credits is -85% are the same characters who are more than willing to put up hundreds of million in tax free funding for their favorite professional teams.

But of course... the Republicans in North Carolina bring a very special kind of stupid to the table... here is Tillis saying the Hand-washing policy for staff at Restaurants should be up to the business - http://www.wral.com/tillis-hand-washing-policy-should-be-up-to-businesses/14417667/

Jaysus. "The market will take care of it." Maybe, if there's a regulation requiring the posting of such a sign, lol.