Martial Law in the US now enabled by Bush

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Irrational protests beget authoritarian laws.

The left beefs about the admins lack of "preparedness" for 9/11, hence the Patriot Act. The left flips out over Katrina hence the "John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007". The next time some nut goes postal in a mall or a McDonalds we'll surely see another kneejerk assault on our 2nd amendment rights.

Few are wise enough to heed the old adage "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it"

Since when were the conservatives willing to drop their principles due to a few left radicals' protests? Do you seriously believe that the Republican controlled congress was listening to the liberals when they were drafting their laws?

Bush dropped the ball on 9/11, dropped the ball on Katrina. The fault is his, not the laws'. You're dishonest to blame Katrina on the left. The Republican's are supposed to stand for competence and responsibility. When you showed incompetence, the whole nation (not just the left) protested. No new law can make an incompetent government become competent.

 

[bigmoose]

If we had a good student of history here, I would be interested in their analysis of things today versus the allies preparation for WWII about 2 or 3 years before the declaration of war.

We might want to keep an eye on Germany's recent decision to support an international military presence, and watch developments in Japan as an indicator of the "West" beginning global mobilization. The OP's story might fit into a more global phenomena that is in preparation.

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

I'm glad you freely admit that the GOP is the party of competence and responsibility. Make that Personal responsibility.

The Katrina evacuation/cleanup was in NO WAY the "responsibility" of FEMA or the Federal government. I must of missed the amendment that deemed the G as the evacuator/insurer/clean up crew of last resort. My storm insurance premium in Florida is over 8k this year. Rather than layout MORE THAN I SPEND ON FOOD for insurance perhaps I should just EXPECT Uncle Sam to BAIL MY ASS OUT the next time a Cat5 rolls through here. That's why I resent even ONE PENNY of my tax dollars going toward Katrina while I'm laying out MY OWN insurance.

Do you favor racial profiling?

Wiretaps without warrants?

Holding folks for questioning without charging them with a crime?

If you don't approve of the former then SHUT THE FUCK UP about 9/11. If you want absolute freedom then there's consequences. People will fuck with you and THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO STOP THEM. Hardly a novel concept.

I made this point to avid Consumer. You could have told the Feds than on 9/11 a bunch of Arabs were going to hijack planes that day and short of either a. closing the system down or b. searching EACH OF THE TWO MILLION DAILY PASSENGERS, (and as it was something like 13 of the hijackers were stopped by gate security before being allowed to board) nothing could LEGALLY BE DONE. Why? You can't DISCRIMINATE OR PROFILE based on race or national origin. So what was YOUR solution on 9/11?

Quote from james_bond_3rd:

Since when were the conservatives willing to drop their principles due to a few left radicals' protests? Do you seriously believe that the Republican controlled congress was listening to the liberals when they were drafting their laws?

Bush dropped the ball on 9/11, dropped the ball on Katrina. The fault is his, not the laws'. You're dishonest to blame Katrina on the left. The Republican's are supposed to stand for competence and responsibility. When you showed incompetence, the whole nation (not just the left) protested. No new law can make an incompetent government become competent.

 

[Rearden Metal]

<b>Can apathy be cultivated?</b>

You know how 98% of the ignorant proles are somehow able to shrug their shoulders at news like this, and remark; "So, how about them Bears? 7 and 0, how about that! Think they can go all the way this year?"

I'd probably be happier if I could do that too.

 

[MajorUrsa]

Quote from bigmoose:
If we had a good student of history here, I would be interested in their analysis of things today versus the allies preparation for WWII about 2 or 3 years before the declaration of war.

To my knowledge the allies did nothing of the sort before the actual war started. After it started inhabitants of the UK and the USA of German and Japanese nationality had some hard time, but nothing very extreme. They kept their 'human rights', that's for sure.
I don't think any of the allies prepared by strictening their own laws and/or giving their own government more powers. Nor did they build camps the accomodate prisoners or 'refugees'.

No, but if we talk about that period, the way the Germans prepared is very well comparable. They abolished the 'habeus corpus' laws even before Hitler had full powers, and started picking up opposers of the Nazi party. They disappeared. Of course, the whole country was under martial law after the war was started, but that was ' what the people of germany asked for'.
And of course we all know about the camps.

We might want to keep an eye on Germany's recent decision to support an international military presence, and watch developments in Japan as an indicator of the "West" beginning global mobilization. The OP's story might fit into a more global phenomena that is in preparation.

Yes, it might very well be that the US is preparing for far bigger events. Anyone will agree that this period in time feels like a very explosive one. Of course the situation isn't helped very much by the activities of the current US administration, and that is the understatement of the day.
It still staggers me how a admired nation like the US was able to ruin all this goodwill, including the extra compassion we felt after 11/9, in only 5 years. If he wasn't as dumb as he is I'd say Bush did it on purpose.

Ursa..

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Only you could move from the topic of the power that Bush has accumulated via a weak and spineless congress to your insurance rates via a straw man argument.....

Geez, is it possible for you to post something that isn't some profanity filled tirade that is ultimately only about you?

The solution to 9/11 was for the FBI to have done its job before hand...for the intelligence agencies to do their job...for Bush's administration to have done their job...for previous administrations to have done their job...all within the structure of the law...

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

I'm glad you freely admit that the GOP is the party of competence and responsibility. Make that Personal responsibility.

The Katrina evacuation/cleanup was in NO WAY the "responsibility" of FEMA or the Federal government. I must of missed the amendment that deemed the G as the evacuator/insurer/clean up crew of last resort. My storm insurance premium in Florida is over 8k this year. Rather than layout MORE THAN I SPEND ON FOOD for insurance perhaps I should just EXPECT Uncle Sam to BAIL MY ASS OUT the next time a Cat5 rolls through here. That's why I resent even ONE PENNY of my tax dollars going toward Katrina while I'm laying out MY OWN insurance.

Do you favor racial profiling?

Wiretaps without warrants?

Holding folks for questioning without charging them with a crime?

If you don't approve of the former then SHUT THE FUCK UP about 9/11. If you want absolute freedom then there's consequences. People will fuck with you and THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO STOP THEM. Hardly a novel concept.

I made this point to avid Consumer. You could have told the Feds than on 9/11 a bunch of Arabs were going to hijack planes that day and short of either a. closing the system down or b. searching EACH OF THE TWO MILLION DAILY PASSENGERS, (and as it was something like 13 of the hijackers were stopped by gate security before being allowed to board) nothing could LEGALLY BE DONE. Why? You can't DISCRIMINATE OR PROFILE based on race or national origin. So what was YOUR solution on 9/11?

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

Like the way Clinton stopped Oklahoma City. Or how he stopped the first WTC bombing. Or the attack on the U.S.S. Cole. Or Waco. Oh that's right, he CAUSED Waco.

Or the way FDR avoided Pearl Harbor. Or the way Oswald wasn't under surveillance in Dallas. Or Selma. Or Rodney King. Isn't big government a splendid watchdog.

It wasn't I who introduced Bush's response to a hurricane into this thread. So yea, I think my insurance rate and everyone else who is compelled to seek private insurers is germane to a rebuttal indicting DEADBEATS who expect Uncle Sam to pay for their lack of preparedness.

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Only you could move from the topic of the power that Bush has accumulated via a weak and spineless congress to your insurance rates via a straw man argument.....

Geez, is it possible for you to post something that isn't some profanity filled tirade that is ultimately only about you?

The solution to 9/11 was for the FBI to have done its job before hand...for the intelligence agencies to do their job...for Bush's administration to have done their job...for previous administrations to have done their job...all within the structure of the law...

 

[Rearden Metal]

Quote from MajorUrsa:

To my knowledge the allies did nothing of the sort before the actual war started. After it started inhabitants of the UK and the USA of German and Japanese nationality had some hard time, but nothing very extreme. They kept their 'human rights', that's for sure.
I don't think any of the allies prepared by strictening their own laws and/or giving their own government more powers. Nor did they build camps the accomodate prisoners or 'refugees'.

Dude! :eek: :eek: :eek:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

I'm glad you freely admit that the GOP is the party of competence and responsibility. Make that Personal responsibility.

I said nothing of the sort. The Republican party was supposed to stand for competence and responsibility. The fact proves them to be a party of incompetence and finger-pointing. What you say below further proves the point.

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

The Katrina evacuation/cleanup was in NO WAY the "responsibility" of FEMA or the Federal government. I must of missed the amendment that deemed the G as the evacuator/insurer/clean up crew of last resort. My storm insurance premium in Florida is over 8k this year. Rather than layout MORE THAN I SPEND ON FOOD for insurance perhaps I should just EXPECT Uncle Sam to BAIL MY ASS OUT the next time a Cat5 rolls through here. That's why I resent even ONE PENNY of my tax dollars going toward Katrina while I'm laying out MY OWN insurance.

Do you favor racial profiling?

Wiretaps without warrants?

Holding folks for questioning without charging them with a crime?

If you don't approve of the former then SHUT THE FUCK UP about 9/11. If you want absolute freedom then there's consequences. People will fuck with you and THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO STOP THEM. Hardly a novel concept.

I made this point to avid Consumer. You could have told the Feds than on 9/11 a bunch of Arabs were going to hijack planes that day and short of either a. closing the system down or b. searching EACH OF THE TWO MILLION DAILY PASSENGERS, (and as it was something like 13 of the hijackers were stopped by gate security before being allowed to board) nothing could LEGALLY BE DONE. Why? You can't DISCRIMINATE OR PROFILE based on race or national origin. So what was YOUR solution on 9/11?

I had made the point in another thread that if only Bush and Ashcroft tried to do something, and even if that failed, they would at least say that they tried. Failing is unfortunate, but not trying is unforgivable. They didn't even try. I'm sure you saw the other thread about the 9/11 (you made the exact same points there) so don't force me to repeat that thread.

 

[MajorUrsa]

Quote from Rearden Metal:
Dude! :eek: :eek: :eek:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Thanks for enlightening me RM, I had only vaguely heard about those camps. Shows how incomplete our collective recollection is.
This part is interesting:

Some compensation for property losses was paid in 1948, but most internees were unable to fully recover their losses.[3] In 1988, President Ronald Reagan signed legislation which apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government. The legislation stated that government actions were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership",[6] and beginning in 1990, the government paid reparations to surviving internees

So, I'm getting even more curious what these new camps are for

Ursa..