Trading does take a special mind set, one that lets you see thru all the crap and understand what's really happening. Once you do, trading is very simple, but requires disipline. Trading is 100% teachable, but are you willing to learn. Traders aren't born imo, though if you're someone that's very meek you likely won't survive on the floor.
Martial arts & trading
- Thread starter Toonces
- Start date
Trading does take a special mind set, one that lets you see thru all the crap and understand what's really happening. Once you do, trading is very simple, but requires disipline. Trading is 100% teachable, but are you willing to learn. Traders aren't born imo, though if you're someone that's very meek you likely won't survive on the floor.
Quote from Volker Butzlaff:
@Joab,
it seems that you know about Karate as a "sport", but nothing about Karate as a (martial) "art".
Zen setups are the underlying of Karate and other (japanese) martial arts...
bye,
zentrader
True,
We trained to win tournaments and we also fought professional and amateur kickboxing.
Our focus was on winning BUT that being said we also had a lot of kids classes were the focus was on discipline and self growth.
Personally I find the whole Zen stuff to be a great way to relax but completely impractical in modern society as we know it.
Shotokan is for sissys
Seems. you're not one of the "three wise men"...
In Shotokan Sport Kumite there are many important techniques not allowed, because of the danger of violation.
In Traditional Shotokan Karate there are all techniques possible and there's surely no disadvantage concerning other martial arts styles.
Never underestimate a thing you know nothing about...
bye,
zentrader
It appears this thread has gone cold. I hope more discussion will take place.
I'm a new student of zen and I feel deeply that this was the best course of action for me. Zen kind of covers all bases. In short you win by default because you do everything that needs to be done to deliver the outcome your true nature desires. One should do whatever it takes to become one with their true self. It may be running, zen, martial arts, reading, or whatever is right for that one person.
Any way if I can be of any help to new traders or struggling traders I will give my opinion why people struggle. Firstly, the market is much more simple than all books make it out to be. Simply master these three things and in this order not any other order. Method, Mind, Money. These are the words of Dr. Elder but traders forever knew these things. Many others particualry Van Tharp profess money is the most important. Thats true but not exactly. What good will a money strategy do for you if your method is flawed. I like elders three leg stool analogy.
With that said one of the most important things that will seperate you from the losing side is this. Don't trade until you have a deeply proven method. Not a worthless backtest but a deep feeling in your heart that this my method and I will win with this method. With out this one feeling all trading endevours will most likely fail no matter what you do. Most of the problems of trading can be completely reduced if you master this one thing. But this must be true mastery not surface value mastery. I like a quote very much from the famous Doors song The End. I'm not sure if this is exactly right but the essence of the point is like this. Kiss the snake with fear and he will bite. Kiss him with pure absence of fear and he will take you to heaven. The market is the snake and if you can kiss it with pure no fear you will succeed. The real emphasis is pure no fear because with this you will do exactly what needs to be done.
Good trading to all
I'm a new student of zen and I feel deeply that this was the best course of action for me. Zen kind of covers all bases. In short you win by default because you do everything that needs to be done to deliver the outcome your true nature desires. One should do whatever it takes to become one with their true self. It may be running, zen, martial arts, reading, or whatever is right for that one person.
Any way if I can be of any help to new traders or struggling traders I will give my opinion why people struggle. Firstly, the market is much more simple than all books make it out to be. Simply master these three things and in this order not any other order. Method, Mind, Money. These are the words of Dr. Elder but traders forever knew these things. Many others particualry Van Tharp profess money is the most important. Thats true but not exactly. What good will a money strategy do for you if your method is flawed. I like elders three leg stool analogy.
With that said one of the most important things that will seperate you from the losing side is this. Don't trade until you have a deeply proven method. Not a worthless backtest but a deep feeling in your heart that this my method and I will win with this method. With out this one feeling all trading endevours will most likely fail no matter what you do. Most of the problems of trading can be completely reduced if you master this one thing. But this must be true mastery not surface value mastery. I like a quote very much from the famous Doors song The End. I'm not sure if this is exactly right but the essence of the point is like this. Kiss the snake with fear and he will bite. Kiss him with pure absence of fear and he will take you to heaven. The market is the snake and if you can kiss it with pure no fear you will succeed. The real emphasis is pure no fear because with this you will do exactly what needs to be done.
Good trading to all
I don't see much connection between a proven method and zen actually. In fact, if you have a proven method it can be automated.
I did do martial arts a good bit in the past, I did discover that I could do things that they never told me about in school, I did discover that I can sense a disaster ahead of time by a few seconds and will always take the correct action to avoid it without much clue about what it is, occasionally I get a feeling about a trade and get out with a small profit just before it takes off the wrong way, otherwise, the method was arrived at by years, and years of study of charts. I had to believe that I could do it to keep at it all those years however, maybe the zen aspect of life gave me that confidence...
I did do martial arts a good bit in the past, I did discover that I could do things that they never told me about in school, I did discover that I can sense a disaster ahead of time by a few seconds and will always take the correct action to avoid it without much clue about what it is, occasionally I get a feeling about a trade and get out with a small profit just before it takes off the wrong way, otherwise, the method was arrived at by years, and years of study of charts. I had to believe that I could do it to keep at it all those years however, maybe the zen aspect of life gave me that confidence...
I'm no expert on Zen but I think people are not grasping the concept correctly. Zen does not mean to be in a totally relaxed manner. A better defintion is to be totally mindful of the present moment and only the present moment. Therefore the chaos on the floor or the relaxed nature of an upstairs trader is irrelevant. There is only one market no matter where you are and only two choices to do the right thing or the wrong thing. If you become one with the market, one with the moment, have solid experience, and good method you should be profitable. Its also my opinion the best traders in history have usually not traded on the floor but traded upstairs rather.
Yeah !
I also think that the Zen thing is something that hasn't much to do with trading.
Trading psychology refers to attitude, belief in your edge, being responsable, serious, accepting and embracing risk ... Of course you have to be calm, but these things aforementioned are not necesarrily achievable through the help of Zen or .. Ralph Macchio
You can meditate in order to visualize the trades in your mind. That, yes, it helps. But when you have 3000 trades in your diary all using the same method, believe me... meditation is not even necessary anymore....
I also think that the Zen thing is something that hasn't much to do with trading.
Trading psychology refers to attitude, belief in your edge, being responsable, serious, accepting and embracing risk ... Of course you have to be calm, but these things aforementioned are not necesarrily achievable through the help of Zen or .. Ralph Macchio
You can meditate in order to visualize the trades in your mind. That, yes, it helps. But when you have 3000 trades in your diary all using the same method, believe me... meditation is not even necessary anymore....