Market Wizards

darkhorse · Apr 21, 2004

Quote from bdixon619:

I think this is a question of perspective, fellas. For damir, who is seeking simple, reproduceable methods, the accumulated market wisdom of the Wizards has little value. While, taking darkhorse's approach to market study reveals the commonality inherent in the Wizards' success, thus; providing a solid underpinning for future growth. In my mind both approaches have value.

I didn't mean to sound snippy - just a little surprised at the attitude of hand waving dismissal.

I have a gigantic Perry Kaufman book on my shelf (Trading Systems and Methods) that goes into system development in excruciating detail. I never got much out of it, but that doesn't mean it's not an excellent resource for mechanical traders.

So I think the difference of opinion is philosophical, regarding subjective vs objective value. Which I may have stated a bit too peevishly.

bdixon619 · Apr 21, 2004

have a gigantic Perry Kaufman book

thanks for the tip. gotta go.

OneHipCat · Apr 21, 2004

Quote from fkeane:

He was a protege of Soros. He went on to found and manage his own global macro hedge fund and had terrific performance for a few years. He blew up spectacularly on a wrong way bet on the Thai Baht in 1997.

He now manages a much more modest amount of money and has written a couple of books since his implosion, called "The Education of a Speculator" and "The Art of Speculation". I found the latter to be a good read.

He also writes interesting pieces on his web site:

http://www.dailyspeculations.com

Despite the criticisms posted here (and they are valid IMHO) he does write some very good stuff if you can make it through all the "off topic" spiel he tortures you with.

I've been reading some of his columns on MSN Money and he mentioned that Soros doesn't want to talk to him anymore. Was there some sort of falling between them before he left Soros Fund Management?

OddTrader · Apr 21, 2004

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

Interesting link about Paul Tudor Jones:

http://www.streetstories.com/ptj_fw_top100.html

One of the photos provides a message (to remind himself

?, and us as well!): "LOSERS AVERAGE LOSERS".

BundMaster · Apr 22, 2004

Quote from Rearden Metal:

Soros & Steve Cohen are the absolute best in the world at what they do. Dennis is a washed up hack who I never should have entrusted with my capital in the first place. His little green reptile proteges make their money from selling their 'amazing money making system' instead of actually trading.

As for Tudor Jones, I'm really not knowledgeable enough to comment.

You sound quite bitter.

ShoeshineBoy · Apr 22, 2004

Quote from OddTrader:

One of the photos provides a message (to remind himself ?, and us as well!): "LOSERS AVERAGE LOSERS".

Okay, I'm really a loser cuzz I can't quite figure out what that means. And I don't hear the sound of one hand clapping either...

inflector · Apr 22, 2004

Losers - traders who lose money
Average - buy more to lower the average price of
Losers - trades that are unprofitable

OddTrader · Apr 22, 2004

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

Okay, I'm really a loser cuzz I can't quite figure out what that means.

Anyone who hasn't experienced what is "Losers Average Losers" wouldn't be a real loser Yet, I guess!

Virtuoso · Apr 22, 2004

Quote from BundMaster:

You sound quite bitter.

Nothing like a 6 figure loss to make a man a little bitter...

TigerO · Apr 22, 2004

Quote from inflector:

The execution costs associated with trading off-floor made long-term position trading much more viable back then. Even when I was trading as a Turtle, we only had quote machines with basic bid, ask, open, high, low, and last. There was limited charting and no ability to see your prices and charts at the same time. The commission charges also tended to favor longer-term systems.

Execution costs have dropped significantly and the ability to monitor short-term systems on multiple markets has improved greatly in the last 25 years.

The good scalpers also tended to react more based on the faces and personalities, and their reactions in the pit rather than the price movements.

Even when he was trading at the Midam, Rich did position trading, he'd sometimes scalp into positions and then hold them for days or weeks. Many of the traders of the time did this.

- Curtis

Hi Curtis,

that information certainly makes a lot of sense and explains why Dennis did what he did.

Although I'm curious I certainly don't want to pry, so don't answer if you think this is off limits, but why did you drop trading after you had turned USD 2 million into 32 million within 4 years, you must have had the confidence that what you are doing works, and even if the compounding rate were to subsequently have slowed down quite a bit as your equity grew larger and larger, you would still have had a very good shot at becoming a centimillionaire a few times over, if not more.

Was trading back then more a job than a passion for you ? Although it's also pretty clear that by anybody's standard your share of USD 32 million worth of 70's money would have been enough to satisfy most needs and passions.

Regards,

Tiger