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market vs. limit nyse orders...
- Thread starter rtrading
- Start date
Market orders take precedenc over all orders. Limts and marketable limits are treated the same. But market are the king in line.
Jeff--
OES
Jeff--
OES
Originally posted by rtrading
Does anyone know if NYSE specialists give preferences to market or limit orders? Or are they all simply time priority. The limit orders I am talking about are obviously ones through the inside market. Thanks.
I have a two fold question. I don't trade a lot of NYSE's but have begun trading more of late.
My first question is, lets say I am in an NYSE stock short and it gets killed. It drops a half point and I feel like a big print is comming and I want to get out (buy it back).
What is the best way to do this. Often there will ofcourse be a huge spread at this point. Should I put in a market order and try and share in the big print if their is oneor should I put in a limit order somewhere between the bid and the offer?
What do you guys normally do. I don't yet have the confidence that the specialist will infact "take care of me". Will he? Cause I dont' trust him. ;-)
Obviously us NASDAQ traders don't get the price improvement that happens from time to time on the NYSE so I am somewhat nervous about throwing out a market order when the spread is really wide like that.
And lets say....the stock is getting creamed and a huge print does go off. I think, "damn I missed my chance".
Now what is the best way to exit? the spread is still big, if your now hooked, is it best to still market out, or with the possible chance of price improvement seemingly gone, should you now watch the next few prints and try and game the tape again.
The last few times I have missed "the PRINT"...I find myself not sure what to do. Beacause I trade mostly nasdaq I find myself looking at the chart thinking....well it's a "total breakdown" so what if it bounces back a bit....it will roll over again I just have to sit through a minute or two of pain.
But ofcourse often that print was "it". That may have been the LOD even. But because I missed the print, I don't know what is the best way percentagewise over time to exit. Does anyone have thoughts on the best course of action.
Also one other thing that has been happening to me is this.
I will be short say 2000 shares of COF and the futures will take off to the upside. Instead of putting in a market order I will put in a limit order 10-15 cents above the offer because I don't want to give the specialist a license to steal....but I seem to get partialed more than I would think.
Often I will get some shares but then the rest of my order will be left pending as the stock runs even further away from me.
So for example I get 800 shares covered up 12 cents, but then the stock is 35 cents higher and I still have 1200 shares short.
I look at the tape though and often I haven't missed any prints....its just that the specialist has yanked the offer higher.
If I had hit a market order does anyone think I would be better off than using a limit and getting partialed?
Would I probably have been better off just using a market order on the entire order?
I realize that each trade/circumstance is different but are their some general rules to adhere to.
Or is it like I think....the more you trade the NYSE the more comfortable you get with executions.
Sorry to ramble.
Thanks.
My first question is, lets say I am in an NYSE stock short and it gets killed. It drops a half point and I feel like a big print is comming and I want to get out (buy it back).
What is the best way to do this. Often there will ofcourse be a huge spread at this point. Should I put in a market order and try and share in the big print if their is oneor should I put in a limit order somewhere between the bid and the offer?
What do you guys normally do. I don't yet have the confidence that the specialist will infact "take care of me". Will he? Cause I dont' trust him. ;-)
Obviously us NASDAQ traders don't get the price improvement that happens from time to time on the NYSE so I am somewhat nervous about throwing out a market order when the spread is really wide like that.
And lets say....the stock is getting creamed and a huge print does go off. I think, "damn I missed my chance".
Now what is the best way to exit? the spread is still big, if your now hooked, is it best to still market out, or with the possible chance of price improvement seemingly gone, should you now watch the next few prints and try and game the tape again.
The last few times I have missed "the PRINT"...I find myself not sure what to do. Beacause I trade mostly nasdaq I find myself looking at the chart thinking....well it's a "total breakdown" so what if it bounces back a bit....it will roll over again I just have to sit through a minute or two of pain.
But ofcourse often that print was "it". That may have been the LOD even. But because I missed the print, I don't know what is the best way percentagewise over time to exit. Does anyone have thoughts on the best course of action.
Also one other thing that has been happening to me is this.
I will be short say 2000 shares of COF and the futures will take off to the upside. Instead of putting in a market order I will put in a limit order 10-15 cents above the offer because I don't want to give the specialist a license to steal....but I seem to get partialed more than I would think.
Often I will get some shares but then the rest of my order will be left pending as the stock runs even further away from me.
So for example I get 800 shares covered up 12 cents, but then the stock is 35 cents higher and I still have 1200 shares short.
I look at the tape though and often I haven't missed any prints....its just that the specialist has yanked the offer higher.
If I had hit a market order does anyone think I would be better off than using a limit and getting partialed?
Would I probably have been better off just using a market order on the entire order?
I realize that each trade/circumstance is different but are their some general rules to adhere to.
Or is it like I think....the more you trade the NYSE the more comfortable you get with executions.
Sorry to ramble.
Thanks.
from my experience dealing with the cof specialist, if you put in a market order 9 times out of 10 he will hold the order till the demand has subsided and basically print your order at the top and of course then spread the market back down so he can cover his short. good thing about cof, it moves alot but you have to be on the right side because that guys a b*stard. not all specialist are like that some are more fair but hey when people are trying to take money off your table you'd be an a$$ to.
My first question is, lets say I am in an NYSE stock short and it gets killed. It drops a half point and I feel like a big print is comming and I want to get out (buy it back).
What is the best way to do this. Often there will ofcourse be a huge spread at this point. Should I put in a market order and try and share in the big print if their is oneor should I put in a limit order somewhere between the bid and the offer?
This depends on the situation. I have been in catastrophic situations where the stock is getting killed and is spreading down .50 to a point at a time. I have marketed out and limited out with both good and bad results. At times, the stock has just spread a dollar and you think its the final print coming up.
I have hit market and most of the time he will fill me with a decent print (about a .25 to a dollar). However, sometimes he will fill me at the offer and I will miss out on the print below. I have also put limits in above the bid just as rtharp mentioned, but a few times I have gotten clobbered because instead of printing below my bid he will only print down .25 or .50......Then if he is really oversold he will rip it up and by the time you get your new order in....you end up giving back your unrealized gains and ending up with an actual loss. I think for me, in these catastrophic stiuations like omc a few months ago or ICN last week, marketing out has been the best thing. Although, in situations that are less crazy like a tradethrough occuring while you are already in the stock , I think putting a bid in is alright. The other option you have is avoiding the stock altogether if you are not already participating when the stock is extremely volitile and totally getting crushed. They are profitable,but very high risk situations.
And lets say....the stock is getting creamed and a huge print does go off. I think, "damn I missed my chance".
I think marketing out and taking your lumps if you missed the spread is the best thing to do....I have sat on the sidelines waiting for a pullback to get a better price but sometimes the stock never looks back and I have had to swallow enormous losses. Again, this is referring to a stock that is getting crushed and is extremely volitile. One of the bigger traders in my office told me once: if you are wrong, just get out. Forget about price. especially if you are trading size. Hoping for a better price may be disasterous.
What is the best way to do this. Often there will ofcourse be a huge spread at this point. Should I put in a market order and try and share in the big print if their is oneor should I put in a limit order somewhere between the bid and the offer?
This depends on the situation. I have been in catastrophic situations where the stock is getting killed and is spreading down .50 to a point at a time. I have marketed out and limited out with both good and bad results. At times, the stock has just spread a dollar and you think its the final print coming up.
I have hit market and most of the time he will fill me with a decent print (about a .25 to a dollar). However, sometimes he will fill me at the offer and I will miss out on the print below. I have also put limits in above the bid just as rtharp mentioned, but a few times I have gotten clobbered because instead of printing below my bid he will only print down .25 or .50......Then if he is really oversold he will rip it up and by the time you get your new order in....you end up giving back your unrealized gains and ending up with an actual loss. I think for me, in these catastrophic stiuations like omc a few months ago or ICN last week, marketing out has been the best thing. Although, in situations that are less crazy like a tradethrough occuring while you are already in the stock , I think putting a bid in is alright. The other option you have is avoiding the stock altogether if you are not already participating when the stock is extremely volitile and totally getting crushed. They are profitable,but very high risk situations.
And lets say....the stock is getting creamed and a huge print does go off. I think, "damn I missed my chance".
I think marketing out and taking your lumps if you missed the spread is the best thing to do....I have sat on the sidelines waiting for a pullback to get a better price but sometimes the stock never looks back and I have had to swallow enormous losses. Again, this is referring to a stock that is getting crushed and is extremely volitile. One of the bigger traders in my office told me once: if you are wrong, just get out. Forget about price. especially if you are trading size. Hoping for a better price may be disasterous.
Using a limit when you want to take part in a block is good because you can make the specialist trade through you. If he trades through you and their was enough time difference the chance of getting the block price is good. You may not get the block all the time but most likely you will. If the block prints too quickly then they can say they were consumatting the block just before your order came which is usually the case if the time frame was too short.
jeff--
jeff--
Originally posted by tradeoes
Market orders take precedenc over all orders. Limts and marketable limits are treated the same. But market are the king in line.
Jeff--
OES
This is not exactly how the orders are treated. Time priority can be "skewed." You are of course correct about the order-type priority.
1. Limit orders can be filled by the clerk who has the computer showing the orders. When we "have" to buy something, we simply place a limit order above the offer, and the clerk immediately fills us a the best price, giving price improvement.
2. Market orders can only be filled by the Specialist...so the orders can be held and "batched" every so often. That is why we use limit orders, because the time of the fill is the most important thing...since you going to get price improvement anyway.
Don