Market Selloff as people realize horrible dumbass Democrats kill economy

[wrbtrader]

You forget that in the early 90's the US promised Mikael Gorbachev that NATO would "not move one inch east of Germany". It was part of the deal to break up the USSR. Now we have moved that line 800 miles east. Putin's wrong to say something about that?
The U.S., the U.N., and the EU can help the Ukrainian people in dozens of ways, economically and with humanitarian aid, but Putin has a right to oppose their admission to NATO.

EDIT

Here:

Washington D.C., December 12, 2017 – U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University (http://nsarchive.gwu.edu).

The documents show that multiple national leaders were considering and rejecting Central and Eastern European membership in NATO as of early 1990 and through 1991, that discussions of NATO in the context of German unification negotiations in 1990 were not at all narrowly limited to the status of East German territory, and that subsequent Soviet and Russian complaints about being misled about NATO expansion were founded in written contemporaneous memcons and telcons at the highest levels.

The documents reinforce former CIA Director Robert Gates’s criticism of “pressing ahead with expansion of NATO eastward [in the 1990s], when Gorbachev and others were led to believe that wouldn’t happen.”[1] The key phrase, buttressed by the documents, is “led to believe.”

President George H.W. Bush had assured Gorbachev during the Malta summit in December 1989 that the U.S. would not take advantage (“I have not jumped up and down on the Berlin Wall”) of the revolutions in Eastern Europe to harm Soviet interests; but neither Bush nor Gorbachev at that point (or for that matter, West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl) expected so soon the collapse of East Germany or the speed of German unification.[2]

The first concrete assurances by Western leaders on NATO began on January 31, 1990, when West German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher opened the bidding with a major public speech at Tutzing, in Bavaria, on German unification. The U.S. Embassy in Bonn (see Document 1) informed Washington that Genscher made clear “that the changes in Eastern Europe and the German unification process must not lead to an ‘impairment of Soviet security interests.’ Therefore, NATO should rule out an ‘expansion of its territory towards the east, i.e. moving it closer to the Soviet borders.’” The Bonn cable also noted Genscher’s proposal to leave the East German territory out of NATO military structures even in a unified Germany in NATO.[3]

In fact, you're correct...I did forget about that promise involving NATO. Thanks for the reminder.

I was too busy chasing South Korean girls in South Korea...getting ready to return back to the states at the time of that promise that NATO would "not move one inch east of Germany"

wrbtrader

 

[vanzandt]

As I pointed out, WW2 was only 80 years ago. As I also pointed out, we may have forgot because aside from Pearl Harbor and the enormous loss of lives endured by our troops on foreign soil, our homeland was never invaded.
Russia was, in a terrible way.

Imagine if Canada had been Nazi Germany in WW2 and the U.S. had been overrun.
Russia lost over 27 million people, over half of which were non-combatants in Nazi occupied Russia.
The U.S. lost under 500,000
We expect the leader of the largest country on Earth to forget this only 80 years later like nothing happened?!
It's his job to protect his people.

Who's picking a fight here?
From his speech last December:

“In a dialogue with the United States and its allies, we will insist on working out specific agreements that would exclude any further NATO moves eastward and the deployment of weapons systems that threaten us in close vicinity to Russian territory,” Putin said.

He charged that “the threats are mounting on our western border,” with NATO placing its military infrastructure closer to Russia and offered the West to engage in substantive talks on the issue, adding that Moscow would need not just verbal assurances, but “legal guarantees.”

“We aren’t demanding any special conditions for ourselves and realize that any agreements must take interests of Russia and all Euro-Atlantic countries into account,” Putin said. “A calm and stable situation must be ensured for all and is needed for all without exclusion.”

 

[vanzandt]

Since 1999 NATO has brought Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia into their fold... all east of Germany.
Putin protested but it still happened and Putin accepted it.
Now he's drawn a line.
I am of the opinion we respect that line.
Putin is NOT Obama, that line's for real.

For human rights we have organizations like the U.N., Amnesty International, etc to monitor what goes on there, but to arm Ukraine with short and medium range missiles, tanks, artillery, $100's of millions earmarked for more weapons of death, and all the other "perks" of being a NATO state... right on Putin's back lawn is absolutely stupid.

When Putin installs missile bases in Windsor, Canada, across the river from Detroit, then Biden has the right to put his nose in things.
NATO is big enough already.

 

[wrbtrader]

...When Putin installs missile bases in Windsor, Canada, across the river from Detroit, then Biden has the right to put his nose in things.
NATO is big enough already.

Fair enough but if Putin (Russia) comes to Canada and goes to the U.S. / Canada border...our polar bears will be waiting and recently the CDC has warned American Covidiots against traveling to Canada.

#sarcasm

wrbtrader

 

[easymon1]

Since 1999 NATO has brought Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia into their fold... all east of Germany.
Putin protested but it still happened and Putin accepted it.
Now he's drawn a line.
I am of the opinion we respect that line.
Putin is NOT Obama, that line's for real.

For human rights we have organizations like the U.N., Amnesty International, etc to monitor what goes on there, but to arm Ukraine with short and medium range missiles, tanks, artillery, $100's of millions earmarked for more weapons of death, and all the other "perks" of being a NATO state... right on Putin's back lawn is absolutely stupid.

When Putin installs missile bases in Windsor, Canada, across the river from Detroit, then Biden has the right to put his nose in things.
NATO is big enough already.

"When all else fails
They take you to war."
Do you care?

 

[piezoe]

What's bad for the economy and the market is the Democrats not getting their initiatives through the Senate intact. Infrastructure was cut in half (or more) to get it through. Tax increases on the Wealthy was a no starter. And now the Senate will block BBB. Had all of these measures passed as originally proposed the economy would have taken off like a moon rocket. As it is, we will continue to have a strong economy because of the stimulus on the demand side -- which is the opposite of what Republican administrations champion. And this, despite the Pandemic! Quite an accomplishment for the Biden Administration I would say, considering what they've had to deal with.

Watch Corporate earnings. It is rare to enter a recession without making a peak in earnings. I don't expect a few, paltry 25 basis point fed funds rate increases to do much of anything expect produce market volatility when they are announced.

 

[ipatent]

Had all of these measures passed as originally proposed the economy would have taken off like a moon rocket.

The deficit would have taken off as well.

 

[KCalhoun]

Fortunately we'll get a big red wave at midterms and socialist Democrats/Biden will remain lame duck til GOP wins back the White House.

 

[easymon1]

Since 1999 NATO has brought Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia into their fold... all east of Germany.
Putin protested but it still happened and Putin accepted it.
Now he's drawn a line.
I am of the opinion we respect that line.
Putin is NOT Obama, that line's for real.

For human rights we have organizations like the U.N., Amnesty International, etc to monitor what goes on there, but to arm Ukraine with short and medium range missiles, tanks, artillery, $100's of millions earmarked for more weapons of death, and all the other "perks" of being a NATO state... right on Putin's back lawn is absolutely stupid.

When Putin installs missile bases in Windsor, Canada, across the river from Detroit, then Biden has the right to put his nose in things.
NATO is big enough already.

If you care...
This post or one representing your view sent to your elected leaders would gain more traction than if it goes no further than here. https://www.usa.gov/elected-officials

 

[piezoe]

The deficit would have taken off as well.

We should talk about this sometime. The "deficit" is a politically useful concept. The Republicans use it whenever they want to kill things they are ideologically opposed to, though it is sometimes difficult to tell ideology from self-interest. When they use the "deficit" ploy, it's often capital investments they are killing!!! They have no problem with appropriating more for War than the Pentagon asks for. They love spending on wasting assets, because when these temporary assets, often never used for their intended purpose, go to the scrap heap, the companies they own get to produce still more wasting assets. They don't think far enough ahead to realize the same companies could be producing capital assets instead. There kind of spending is wasteful and does little for the bulk of Americans, other than to keep them treading water. Investment, on the other hand, produces a positive return and will reduce net future Treasury liabilities and the non-discretionary spending that goes with these liabilities. And most importantly, real investment in the future lifts the little boats as well as the yachts. We need to spend less on wasting assets and invest more in capital assets that will sustain our future.