Market Profile -- who needs it?

Quote from HispaTrader:

EqtTrd,

I wrote the Market Profile code myself. I'm an engineer so this part comes easy. :p

I posted my Market Profile indicator at www.traderslaboratory.com. It generates the daily Market Profile, not the composite. Check it out.
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Thank you so much for this! Ive been dying to get my hands on something like it.
 
Hey some nice work being done by maverick, hispatraders and others. What started as life as a MP bagging thread developed into something rather positive, with the naysayers no longer anywhere to be seen.

Good to see FT71 gracing ET with his insightful comments again also.

bolter
 
I am a newbie to MP. But here is my experience with a MP chatroom, just because some member can pull more points than the moderator over a few days... it doesn't mean anything. The question is can the moderator apply his MP methodology in consistent manner?

Personally I think there is a learning curve for MP even after getting through the jargons. Someone can spoonfeed me all the setups over a few days but to get the actual market read instead of looking for setups, I need a lot of screen time and practice in order to let the setup come to me.

MP doesn't have to be countertrend (fading edges within balance). One can also trade pullback during balance shift and more. MP can complement many different methodologies - excellent trade filter. Someone also pointed out to me there is the J-Chart (looks and feel MP to me) trading symmetry, which I think can be a little too esoteric but certain aspect might be worth researching.

With regards to Jones, I also started reading his book slowly (free from CISCO futures) at work and I found that sometimes he can explain certain working concepts more clearly... but that is just me.

There is definitely some confusing stuff being put out there... probably risky approach too. My feeling is MP can put some "live juice" into otherwise dead technical setups... and that's a lot.
 
Quote from bolter:

What started as life as a MP bagging thread developed into something rather positive, with the naysayers no longer anywhere to be seen.

bolter
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Oh, the naysayers are still around, they just got bored with the subject...:D
 
market profile, like any chart is a just a way to model price action

that's all charts are. they are not necessary for trading, but most people who trade technically and/or short term timeframe obviously use charts.

the problem isn't market profile. it is that many users of market profile get way too religious and cultish about it.

when people start gettting arrogant, cultish, and act like only THEIR model is *the* way to look at the market, well... that's a recipe for stupidity. and i have seen/read/heard several MP proponents get that way.

i pay attention to market profile composite charts (1,5,10, 20 and quarterly composites) and it just gives me another way to look at what is happening in the markets.

some of the market profile books and articles get WAY too much into arcane terminology and endless levels of classifying, naming, etc. when trading is really not that complicated, nor does it need to be

i have read some market profile articles, etc. that INSTANTLY make me realize the writer is a complete moron, when they basically imply (if not outright state) that MP is the only statistically valid form of TA, bla bla bla.

it's just a tool to model price action.

that's all.

it is not magic. for example, there is nothing magic about the 1 standard deviation used to denote the "value area", but mythical existence is frequently attached to it.

i gotta give enthios props, because he does apply MP well. he elegantly and simply applies basic MP.

you can be a great trader and ignore MP completely. you can be a MP guru and be a terrible trader.

it's a tool.
 
Quote from whitster:

market profile, like any chart is a just a way to model price action

that's all charts are. they are not necessary for trading, but most people who trade technically and/or short term timeframe obviously use charts.

the problem isn't market profile. it is that many users of market profile get way too religious and cultish about it.

when people start gettting arrogant, cultish, and act like only THEIR model is *the* way to look at the market, well... that's a recipe for stupidity. and i have seen/read/heard several MP proponents get that way.

i pay attention to market profile composite charts (1,5,10, 20 and quarterly composites) and it just gives me another way to look at what is happening in the markets.

some of the market profile books and articles get WAY too much into arcane terminology and endless levels of classifying, naming, etc. when trading is really not that complicated, nor does it need to be

i have read some market profile articles, etc. that INSTANTLY make me realize the writer is a complete moron, when they basically imply (if not outright state) that MP is the only statistically valid form of TA, bla bla bla.

it's just a tool to model price action.

that's all.

it is not magic. for example, there is nothing magic about the 1 standard deviation used to denote the "value area", but mythical existence is frequently attached to it.

i gotta give enthios props, because he does apply MP well. he elegantly and simply applies basic MP.

you can be a great trader and ignore MP completely. you can be a MP guru and be a terrible trader.

it's a tool.
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amen to that.
 
I was looking at the CISCO site and agree with the posters here that it is a mess. I don't know if the course is worth the money or not, however the absense of any feedback anywhere on the web dosen't bode well for it.

I'd like to do my own reading and play around with the tool in my trading lab, but I'm not sure that I even know where to begin. Any recomendations on where to start (what books or websites)?

Thanks
 
Quote from dupaski76:

I was looking at the CISCO site and agree with the posters here that it is a mess. I don't know if the course is worth the money or not, however the absense of any feedback anywhere on the web dosen't bode well for it.

I'd like to do my own reading and play around with the tool in my trading lab, but I'm not sure that I even know where to begin. Any recomendations on where to start (what books or websites)?

Thanks
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I've studied MP quite a bit. Even went to Chicago for some seminars with Steidlmayer a number of years ago. Based on all that, I would recommend starting with the Dalton, Jones, and Dalton book "Mind Over Markets." I actually don't know of any other book on MP that's much good, though the stuff on the CBOT website is a help (or used to be -- I haven't looked lately).

I used to create profiles by hand from 30 minute bar charts. It was a very good way to develop a feel for the markets from the MP perspective. At any rate, it's a way to get started.

MP was developed as a short term trading tool. Later it was extended to longer time frames; but as far as I've ever been able to figure, it isn't really very useful beyond the day frame. Nor do the various efforts to improve it, as, for example, by adding volume and Cti considerations, really make much difference.

Steidlmayer himself has worked on improving the basic idea for years. His Capflow software embodies his recent thinking; though, again, for me there is little or no advantage.

I think the Market Profile is best viewed as a qualitative tool. With a lot of experience, it really does help develop an intuitive sense of what is going on in the day timeframe and how the day is likely to develop. It does not give signals or appeal much to a "what is the signal" approach. To see its power you have to immerse yourself in it on a real time basis.

Here are a some websites:

http://www.profiletrading.com/
http://www.steidlmayer.com/
http://www.windotrader.com/
 
Thanks Bumble and 5,

I actually was able to purchase mind over markets at a used bookstore today. I'll follow up with the recommended sites as well.

Thanks again
 
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