market manipulation?

Quote from Batman28:

what major technical support? no disrespect but I've had the opportunity to visit some of prop desks at a few Invesment banks and haven't met a single trader who uses it or beleives in technical analysis.
More...

So, what are the prop desks believing in or "using" ?
 
Quote from Batman28:

I know the truth is when it comes to trading you shouldn't really care and just follow the market and make money. And I can imagine only losers cry about market manipulation, unfairness blah blah etc.

But ignoring all that, just putting it into perspective - wasn't the huge selling bit earlier a bluff? if in fact truth - why would the same forces buy it back? I'm not talking bout little guys trying to chase the market. I'm talking about those forces that are able to move markets.

clearly there is a reason for it? buying back cheaper? remember this is the day Goldman announces recession for 08.

I know how some of you smart guys like to talk about irrational market, randomness bla blah. but i don't really think this was random at all. if it was random the selling might ease pace and stop at a equilibrium level today. but it was PUSHED down only to be bought back heavily.

I don't want to hear trading strategies, making money bla bla, just think about what just happend, do you really think market wasn't manipulated?
More...

Of COURSE the market is manipulated. This is the way the game has always been played.

Those who want to accumulate sell, which induces selling, which induces selling. When they have enough, they mark it up. Marking it up induces buying, and those who bought cheaper keep buying so as to draw interest. Eventually, the merchandise is distributed to those who sold low but now want to buy now that is higher. Those who accumulated low will sell all they have and more. What they sold short will be bought back cheaper. And so it goes...

Accumulation, marking it up, distribution, marking it down--some things never change. Classic technical analysis written down a century ago is still true. Indeed, as Solomon said, there really IS nothing new under the sun.
 
Quote from Batman28:

applying technical analysis to market manipulation makes perfect sense - as there is a reason for it. you may assume it's your chart. but did you know the market went down in 20 min and back in the same about of time? it was PUSHED down - if the market gradually falls and TA traders enter and it gradually rises I would accept your argument. but it was PUSHED DOWN and it rose RAPIDLY to days highs. it doesn't add up.
More...

With all due respect, your comments are rather naive. It doesn't matter whether a market was PUSHED down or PUSHED up by program trading. Program trading accounts for over 60% of the volume in the markets anyway.

You appear to place a lot of weight on the SPEED at which a market makes it moves as to whether or not the move was technically based . . . yet you provide absolutely no evidence that there is any kind of correlation to that effect whatsoever.

All you can do is say . . .

"it doesn't add up."

Welcome to the 21st Century my friend.
It's called "short-covering".

:D
 
If you find consiracy in todays action, then maybe you should stick to your full-time job of being a crime fighter. I would love being a super-hero myself, trading can be quite boring at times.
 
Amen. If we rally from here and get even semi-close to the October highs, I can't imagine the amount of whining and blameshifting we'll hear from the permabears.

And when anything gets too easy, like buying dips (for much of 2004 to 2006) or shorting rallies (since late October), you can bet it will stop working when the masses catch on.

Quote from trader_arb:

Every time we have a volatile day there are at least 5-10 threads on how the market was manipulated, conspiracy theories, PPT, it was Bush's fault, Goldman Sachs did it, etc. Shorting within the last 10 minutes of every day can only work so many times.
More...
 
Quote from Batman28:

...just think about what just happend, do you really think market wasn't manipulated?
More...
No, I do not believe mkt is manipulated. There are many reasons for the price action, some of which have been presented above and more are available if you decide to engage your brain cells.

Otoh, I could care less if it is manipulated as long as I can find a way to follow the action & harvest profits.

Sounds like you:
- haven't read 'Reminiscences' (his mkt was rigged but he still found a way...)
- can't figure out how to make a profit. I suspect your struggles will continue as long as you remain in victim mode....
Quote from Batman28:

And I can imagine only losers cry about market manipulation, unfairness blah blah etc.
More...
Very true - and yet you had to post it anyway ....

R
 
Quote from RL8093:

I suspect your struggles will continue as long as you remain in victim mode....

R
More...

One of the greatest posts on ET in the last year, bar none.
 
Quote from MKTrader:

Amen. If we rally from here and get even semi-close to the October highs, I can't imagine the amount of whining and blameshifting we'll hear from the permabears.

And when anything gets too easy, like buying dips (for much of 2004 to 2006) or shorting rallies (since late October), you can bet it will stop working when the masses catch on.
More...

Hey! I am a perma-bear and that is offensive! Actually, this permabear is essentially flat now and would love to "whine and blameshift" about another chance to sell October highs :D
 
cool guys, maybe you're right about shorts covering. still very interesting and difficult not to be skeptic at what happend and how it happend.

this was a thread to analyse what happend, not about who made money who lost money bla bla.

ASusilovic, mainly arbitrage - converts/credit/options, volatility arbitrage, fundamental investing with a private equity approach - lot of meetings with actual company boards etc. the most successful strategy Ive seen with my own eyes was a stat arb on global equities with a small group of quants and a trader. I truly honestly have never met a trader who used technical analysis.

thanks for your post RL8093 maybe I learnt something today. - ps. im not a trader.

But I do beleives markets are manipulated from what I know. maybe it wasn't today. but they do happen, although it shouldn't bother small traders.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top