Market Makers Approach to Options Trading

[taowave]

FWIW,I was just designated "pro customer", and the real crusher is market makers have stopped trading with me( at my price).

I was sending out 400 plus orders and splitting markets all day long. I haven't executed one contract better than mid market since the designation....Im literally out of business .....

The good news is I am no longer staring at a screen all day sending out 500 orders per....

If you are classified as a "pro customer" you can be on both sides of the trade.

But, there are a lot of downsides with this designation. You will be paying much higher exchange fees. You will lose customer priority at exchanges/products that offer it. Your orders will less likely to be filled with this designation (MM's can see this tag).

Some brokers may not allow you to be on both sides of the market, even if you have this designation.

You will automatically be tagged as Pro Customer if you average more then 390 option orders (not trades) per day in any give month. You will then have this designation for the next quarter.

 

[ajacobson]

Broker Pro or the CBOE - if CBOE how hard and expensive was it.

 

[M.W.]

Plus most exchanges and brokers will probably automatically classify you as pro and force you to pay exorbitant data fees.

If you are classified as a "pro customer" you can be on both sides of the trade.

But, there are a lot of downsides with this designation. You will be paying much higher exchange fees. You will lose customer priority at exchanges/products that offer it. Your orders will less likely to be filled with this designation (MM's can see this tag).

Some brokers may not allow you to be on both sides of the market, even if you have this designation.

You will automatically be tagged as Pro Customer if you average more then 390 option orders (not trades) per day in any give month. You will then have this designation for the next quarter.

 

[FSU]

FWIW,I was just designated "pro customer", and the real crusher is market makers have stopped trading with me( at my price).

I was sending out 400 plus orders and splitting markets all day long. I haven't executed one contract better than mid market since the designation....Im literally out of business .....

The good news is I am no longer staring at a screen all day sending out 500 orders per....

This was the biggest drawback for me as well. I trade a lot of spreads in less liquid tickers and when I got this designation, no one would trade with me, unless I really paid up. This was a couple of years ago. I now make sure I stay under the 390 order cap. I don't need another 3 month vacation.

 

[taowave]

So its not my imagination..I went from 60 mph to ZERO in a nanosecond...

This was the biggest drawback for me as well. I trade a lot of spreads in less liquid tickers and when I got this designation, no one would trade with me, unless I really paid up. This was a couple of years ago. I now make sure I stay under the 390 order cap. I don't need another 3 month vacation.

 

[getthatintoya]

So its not my imagination..I went from 60 mph to ZERO in a nanosecond...

Lol you will have to get into the trenches with us mere mortal option traders and pick a direction Taowave.

 

[mskl]

FWIW,I was just designated "pro customer", and the real crusher is market makers have stopped trading with me( at my price).

I was sending out 400 plus orders and splitting markets all day long. I haven't executed one contract better than mid market since the designation....Im literally out of business .....

The good news is I am no longer staring at a screen all day sending out 500 orders per....

This rule was created in 2009 and it may have had some credibility back then. However, today it is one of the worst rules in the marketplace. Because of things like PFOF, Data Co-location and technology advantages, there is no way a retail trader could ever truly compete as a market maker. The rule literally reduces secondary competition (medium sized firms and larger retail traders) and you wonder why average bid ask spreads have ballooned to over $3?

This designation only exists today because the folks who control the rules of the game (the Exchanges via the wholesalers) want to filter out sophistication. It's not enough for these wholesalers to bribe the brokers for their order flow, bribe the Exchanges for data advantages but they also coerce the Exchanges via what rules they want in the marketplace and they do it by saying things like, "We will provide liquidity in auctions but only if you take out the smarter retail customers" (thus the order count).

The idea being, there is a correlation between orders sent and sophistication.

The Options/Equity Market in the US is the only business that I know that punishes you if you do too much business (assuming volume is related to orders sent). Of course if you're a broker - the Exchanges reward you for meeting volume thresholds via lower fees and higher rebates. But not if you're a retail trader as your fees will increase, you will be excluded from auctions and your orders will be marked differently and thus ignored by other professionals. Yes, it literally is a three month vacation. You will get virtually no fills now. The good news is there is no reason to enter orders anymore - thus your designation will revert back in three months.

I keep waiting for someone to stand up to these Exchanges but nothing ever happens.

Instead, "complicit" Wall Street has allowed this idiotic rule to filter into the Equity market.

 

[ajacobson]

For what it's worth that is the professional order rule.

 

[taowave]

Im screwed

"Just when I thought I was out,they pull me back in"..

Anyone know what movie that's from???

I haven't had a true down day (other than bad mark) in 2 years....

Direction???? This is not going to be pretty

Lol you will have to get into the trenches with us mere mortal option traders and pick a direction Taowave.

 

[taowave]

You are spot on..I naively thought I would get a fill,and sent out 100 orders...Those pussies wouldn't trade 1 single contract with me..Not one...

The good news is winter is OVER,and it's about time I join you fine folk and trade directionally..

This rule was created in 2009 and it may have had some credibility back then. However, today it is one of the worst rules in the marketplace. Because of things like PFOF, Data Co-location and technology advantages, there is no way a retail trader could ever truly compete as a market maker. The rule literally reduces secondary competition (medium sized firms and larger retail traders) and you wonder why average bid ask spreads have ballooned to over $3?

This designation only exists today because the folks who control the rules of the game (the Exchanges via the wholesalers) want to filter out sophistication. It's not enough for these wholesalers to bribe the brokers for their order flow, bribe the Exchanges for data advantages but they also coerce the Exchanges via what rules they want in the marketplace and they do it by saying things like, "We will provide liquidity in auctions but only if you take out the smarter retail customers" (thus the order count).

The idea being, there is a correlation between orders sent and sophistication.

The Options/Equity Market in the US is the only business that I know that punishes you if you do too much business (assuming volume is related to orders sent). Of course if you're a broker - the Exchanges reward you for meeting volume thresholds via lower fees and higher rebates. But not if you're a retail trader as your fees will increase, you will be excluded from auctions and your orders will be marked differently and thus ignored by other professionals. Yes, it literally is a three month vacation. You will get virtually no fills now. The good news is there is no reason to enter orders anymore - thus your designation will revert back in three months.

I keep waiting for someone to stand up to these Exchanges but nothing ever happens.

Instead, "complicit" Wall Street has allowed this idiotic rule to filter into the Equity market.

This rule was created in 2009 and it may have had some credibility back then. However, today it is one of the worst rules in the marketplace. Because of things like PFOF, Data Co-location and technology advantages, there is no way a retail trader could ever truly compete as a market maker. The rule literally reduces secondary competition (medium sized firms and larger retail traders) and you wonder why average bid ask spreads have ballooned to over $3?

This designation only exists today because the folks who control the rules of the game (the Exchanges via the wholesalers) want to filter out sophistication. It's not enough for these wholesalers to bribe the brokers for their order flow, bribe the Exchanges for data advantages but they also coerce the Exchanges via what rules they want in the marketplace and they do it by saying things like, "We will provide liquidity in auctions but only if you take out the smarter retail customers" (thus the order count).

The idea being, there is a correlation between orders sent and sophistication.

The Options/Equity Market in the US is the only business that I know that punishes you if you do too much business (assuming volume is related to orders sent). Of course if you're a broker - the Exchanges reward you for meeting volume thresholds via lower fees and higher rebates. But not if you're a retail trader as your fees will increase, you will be excluded from auctions and your orders will be marked differently and thus ignored by other professionals. Yes, it literally is a three month vacation. You will get virtually no fills now. The good news is there is no reason to enter orders anymore - thus your designation will revert back in three months.

I keep waiting for someone to stand up to these Exchanges but nothing ever happens.

Instead, "complicit" Wall Street has allowed this idiotic rule to filter into the Equity market.