Market Depth patterns

Quote from ElectricSavant:

It would be an opportunity of a lifetime to fly out and sit next to
FuturesTrader71, and watch him trade for the day.

Michael B.

On a very basic level, the nature of the market is that the maximum profit comes from the highest number of participants being "wrong"
I have been slacking off and been swamped (planning a move to the DC area and trying finalize corporate stuff for the year), but I had intended to post a journal that included a 5-10 minute (depends on size) Camtasia video of me scalping. Baron has already agreed to host the file locally at ET. I just have to sit down and put it together. The purpose of this is to get comments from others with experience, to refute the idea that one can't make money scalping and to provide a visual idea as a link to back my posts with.

I will get around to it soon.

Happy holidays.
 
Ok, Will stay tuned...

Quote from FuturesTrader71:

I have been slacking off and been swamped (planning a move to the DC area and trying finalize corporate stuff for the year), but I had intended to post a journal that included a 5-10 minute (depends on size) Camtasia video of me scalping. Baron has already agreed to host the file locally at ET. I just have to sit down and put it together. The purpose of this is to get comments from others with experience, to refute the idea that one can't make money scalping and to provide a visual idea as a link to back my posts with.

I will get around to it soon.

Happy holidays.
 
I wish we had a camtasia video link for this post...


Quote from FuturesTrader71:

AMT and others have provided some of the other reasons. On a very basic level, the nature of the market is that the maximum profit comes from the highest number of participants being "wrong". In other words, one cannot make money if the majority is "correct". This is basic Mass Psychology of the markets. It is often forgotten that this is a negative sum game and someone has to pay out for another to profit and both participants have to pay the exchange and clearer. Hence, the size may be momentarily correct, but it is often a counter-indicator. It all depends on the prints, so the tape (T&S) is extremely important if you scalp.

For example, if I'm long 40 Dax and prints come in on the offer during a breakout, I'm immediately looking for size to come in on the bid (as other participants try to go long or cover shorts). As soon as size does show up on the bid, I'm ready to hit it as soon as prints on the offer shrink in volume (naturally, it depends on where S/R is and other factors). Ironically, when size shows up in my direction, I become extra sharp and suspicious ready to get out quickly. The ER2 trades the same way often times: It magically goes to size.

As smaller traders bend over backwards to determine what an S/R level is with accuracy, participants who are trading size only look at those areas as zones. Hence, if I need to get out/in, as AMT indicated, I need to look for a zone that affords me the best liquidity. Therefore, I go to where the size is. Basic supply and demand.

Additionally, like you said in your message, often times, size has stops behind it. If one wanted to get short NQ and one knows they are queued well and size is backing them up, they wil probably have their stop a tick or two above the size where it is a bit thinner. This often causes the "avalanche" effect that Lefty discusses above when that size gets taken.

Again, my perspective is that of a scalper, so I'm sure others will have a different views.

Happy holidays.
 
I do think you can make a good living by scalping only (mainly by building position size over time), but "scalping only" to me is like fishing every day. You have to get up, go out in your boat and hope you can find enough areas to fish that day....and then you have to catch the fish, and when they hit your bait you have to act fast to hook them and bring them to the boat. Now for me I like intraday position trading (which is more like farming IMO) better then scalping as I sit and wait for very defined high probability criteria to enter trades from (like waiting for your crops to grow). Then when those defined criteria have been met, I enter trades with pre-defined targets to harvest my crops. This is more methodical and planned out then scalping, which can make for a pretty casual day just sitting in your combine waiting for the crops to grow listening to your favorite tunes. http://www.deere.com/en_US/ProductCatalog/FR/series/combine_sts.html

Although it is nice to be out on the water all day! :)
 
I like it ALL...I guess I am a trading junkie...(someday I will have traded every instrument, and understand it)



Quote from AMT4SWA:

I do think you can make a good living by scalping only (mainly by building position size over time), but "scalping only" to me is like fishing every day. You have to get up, go out in your boat and hope you can find enough areas to fish that day....and then you have to catch the fish, and when they hit your bait you have to act fast to hook them and bring them to the boat. Now for me I like intraday position trading (which is more like farming IMO) better then scalping as I sit and wait for very defined high probability criteria to enter trades from (like waiting for your crops to grow). Then when those defined criteria have been met, I enter trades with pre-defined targets to harvest my crops. This is more methodical and planned out then scalping, which can make for a pretty casual day just sitting in your combine waiting for the crops to grow listening to your favorite tunes. http://www.deere.com/en_US/ProductCatalog/FR/series/combine_sts.html

Although it is nice to be out on the water all day! :)
 
I think it is good to try all different styles of trading at some point....that is how you eventually find out what your are the best at....or what fits your personality/mentalities best.
 
Quote from AMT4SWA:

This is more methodical and planned out then scalping, which can make for a pretty casual day just sitting in your combine waiting for the crops to grow listening to your favorite tunes. http://www.deere.com/en_US/ProductCatalog/FR/series/combine_sts.html

Although it is nice to be out on the water all day! :)
Very good post. This is the reason I joined ET. I am constantly looking out for what others are doing in order to better secure the longevity of my traders and myself. I have explored spreads (bonds/notes as well as inter-index spreads) as well as started backtesting some ideas.

In this business, one has to be on the lookout for change and to adapt. I am sure that sooner or later, I will have a farm and fish to harvest. I still haven't figured out what to look for and what fish I want to farm. :) Scalping is a very efficient way to build equity and to control risk.

The reason I post here and stay active on ET is to discover ideas to morph my trading into. I know I won't be such an active scalper in a few years. I don't mind spending the whole day watching the DOM and tape right now, but soon I will want to rely more on a methodology/plan rather than on my speed, discipline and ability to read the market.

I hope to consistently work towards figuring out other ways to exploit inefficiencies in the market. I have about 16 books on everything from MP to Trading Systems that I still have to read (I nibble here and there). I think there is a lot of value to ET in that sense.

Right now, my method looks more like this: :D

http://www.maximonline.com/stupid_fun/articles/images/5821.jpg
 
That link is great...LOL :D !

Hey, I hated "automated" trading about 9 months ago (I thought it took all the fun out of trading), but now that is the majority of my overall monthly position size totals. I actual like the challenge now of always trying to come up with a new system or a twist on an existing system....which has turned out to be fun for me. :)
 
As an experiment for those who trade on a discretionary basis with market depth, have you ever tried trading with it turned off?
 
Back
Top