Market Delta - Transitioning to the New Platform

Logic that I prefer............my email to Linnsoft has already been sent.

"Volume Breakdown indicator logic:

If price <= bid....put in bid volume
If price >= ask...put in ask volume
If price is in between....not considered for the delta"


Also, I predominantly use 317 tick charts or 4 tick range bars, and so far I have not seen any major problems. On occasion when the VB is set to accumulating delta bars I will have to click the chart and hit the space bar to clean up an abnormally computed bar (maybe once every other day....no biggie). Of course Chad already knows about this and I am sure this will be resolved in time......nothing that I am worried about as this does not affect anything I am doing with my trading.
 
Quote from bolter:

With regard to the differences in the delta I reported earlier I've discovered the source of the problem was that the chart was based on 1 minute data.

Linnsoft point out that the delta and volume profile charts must built on tick data in order to be accurate. Ok no problem with that. However there is no way of telling the chart are actually built on 1 minute data. I have to export the data to Excel and eyeball it to figure out the interval.

In this case I had somehow managed to overwrite the last two days tick data with 1 minute data. How the hell that happened I have no idea.

Clearly this is going to prove problematic.

I'll do some more work on this Monday and keep you posted.

bolter
More...


I might kill 2 birds with 1 stone here on this post...

Ahh, yes bolter, indeed correct. Way I take care of this is to only ever do tick data refreshes. If I must do a longer minute backfill request (which I don't generally need to do unless charting a new instrument for the first time), then I follow that up with a maximum tick refresh. Like that previous screenshot I posted for billp. At the start of each day, I hit that and make sure all my instruments have the last session worth of tick data.

You are indeed for the need of consistency between the delta determination algorithm. They recognize that and I assume will do that first thing Monday. I had several emails from linnsoft on this issue during the weekend (pretty good getting replies on weekends!).

A previous poster made the point of being able to filter out by lot sizes. You can do this both with the footprint charts and the VB indicator. I do this often, quite amazing some of the differences one can see. Also, the new Footprint charts are not only limited to futures like they used to be - can be used on absolutely any instrument that you can receive data on.

I am no way affiliated with these guys, other then a happy customer. I know the learning curve is steep as it always is when learning complex software like charting applications. I am glad to offer assistance to anyone having trouble with it, although I am by no means an expert.

kind regards,
MK
 
I had the following response from Trevor - "We will be changing this in the near future to make it much more difficult to overwrite your tick data with intraday 1 min data."

So obviously he is aware of the problem and a remedy is on the way.

bolter
 
Running a live -side-by-side betwen the old and new versions this morning on the MSCI Taiwan index there are indeed appreciable differences.

The new version allocates volume differently. For example, a print of 50x52 gets classified as 0x102 on the new version. Over the ocurse of time this can produce significantly different looking footprint. What I have observed is the new version produces consistently more extreme column deltas.

I'll report this to Trevor.

33bjml2.png


48pa8th.png
 
I'm starting to feel like a beta tester (honorary I might add). It looks to me like nobody else has tested the bloody thing.

Here's a serious bug with the new version.

Note this 1 min footprint - decidedly bullish looking. In fact overly much so - markets rarely trade like this.

47l78e8.png


Now look what happens when I swap to a 5 min chart and then back to a 1 min.

4996w7k.png


This is spooky.

bolter
 
Bolter,

You are not the only one who is doing the beta testing. I'm a member of this club too!!!!

This new platform. imho, is over complicated. I'm a new user and just got used to the old version of MD. From my point of view, the beauty of MD was that you were not reliant on lagging technical indicators; now we have 130 of them to choose from.

Try putting up a candlestick and footprint chart, simultaneously, and you can't minimise the candlestick. It can be open or closed.
You can't drag the footprint chart to size, with the candlestick chart running on the same screen. Well, I couldn't get it to.

Despite, it's quirks the old version was very simple to use and did the job that it was supposed to do. Why the quirks couldn't have been ironed out, whilst retaining the core application, is something that I find hard to understand.
 
Bolter,

Do you mind saying which logic you prefer? For me I prefer the old footprint logic. Thanks


Quote from MidKnight:

I sent email to linnsoft yesterday about the differences between the VB indicator and the delta charts. Here is what they told me. I tend to agree with his comments.


** their response **

MidKnight,

Trevor had pointed out a difference between the two as well on Friday. I
just dug into the code, and believe I discovered what is causing the
descrepancy. The logic for the footprint chart vs the VB indicator is
spelled out below. Feel free to share this with the elitetrader crowd and
get their general opinion on which way (or maybe some other way) this should
be handled. I'm inclined to use the logic currently used by the VB
indicator. I'll discuss this with Trevor.

The Footprint chart logic:

If price <= (bid + ask)/2.....put in bid volume
Else...put in ask volume

Volume Breakdown indicator logic:

If price <= bid....put in bid volume
If price >= ask...put in ask volume
If price is in between....not considered for the delta

Thanks for pointing this out.

Regards,

** End of their response **
More...
 
Midknight,

Thanks for all your help. I've spent so much time on this conversion thing that I feel that I'm looking at the leaves now and forgetting all about the trees and forest. Thus, if you don't mind can you shed some light on item #1. The others are just my thoughts. Thanks.

1) I look at many stocks, each day there will be some similar stocks and some different stocks. Thus, I do not want to keep all these stocks in my quote page, neither do I want the software to download all these data everyday (when I first start the software each morning) as these are kept in my CPU which takes up unnecessary clutter. Thus, I tend to add/delete these stocks each morning and during the day. Unfortunately this results in more problems as I am no expert in this software and the software tends to cater more for those that have a 'fixed basket of instruments' (ie do not keep changing their instruments etc which would cause download confusion). 1 problem here. Any possible advise on this?

2) The different methods of download. Yes, I've tried them so many ways so many times. I even saw the tape on downloading using 24 hours. Even when Bolter and you highlight the different in calculating the delta, I'm not surprised as I did notice that at times the 'deltas do not include the price between bid and ask spread' for the charts although it was included in the footprints etc.

3) This software at this stage seems to have bugs/differences in calculation and is more suitable for those that are more IT inclined and/or those that have found delta/other features that are extremely useful to them that they are willing to go through this 'testing period'. For me, I'm not IT inclined. However, I will go through whatever it takes if I believe or have found the delta/other feature to be extremely useful for me that cannot be found elsewhere. As of this stage, I find that reading the normal chart majority of the time gives me a better edge than reading delta. As such, I've decided to give up on this software for the time being as I feel my efforts, money, time etc are better utilised elsewhere. Not ruling the possibility of coming back in the future though when I feel that I really need to master this delta thing.

4) As for your comments that it needs time to master such as price/volume, yes totally agree with you. That's why I had kept trying and was initially prepared to give it a few more months. At this stage, I would say that it helps me a bit but also confuses me more. Also, I prefer the delta logic of the old version. If the new logic is implemented, I am less likely to go back and try it again.

I thank you for all the help that you have rendered. Perhaps, 1 day I will go back to this software.

I will however, follow this thread with great enthusiasm and contribute productively if possible.


Quote from MidKnight:

Midknight,

Thanks for the feedback.
Am a bit confused though and appreciate your clarification.

So you pull up a 1 minute chart and press the spacebar to download, then from there choose download tick? It will then convert the tick data to 1 minute candlestick chart?

No, you can't do it like that billp. If you pull up a 1min chart and hit space bar you are downloading 1minute data. You will only download as much data as the chart holds. For example, if you have the chart set to show 5 days worth of data, then the refresh will get 5 days worth of 1 minute data.

What I do when I wake up to start the day is I download the last day worth of tick data for my entire quotepage. I'll post a screenshot of what I mean...

http://charts.dacharts.com/2006-08-12/download.png


I tried doing that but got some problems. Maybe I have uninstalled and installed the program too many times and using different links as provided by Trevor. As of now, I can't even find the program in the add/remove program list anymore although I can still open it using the icon on my desktop. I remembered when I first uninstalled it, I could still find it in the 'add/remove program'.

Hmm...that doesn't sound good...


I strongly suspect I will give this software up soon. I've not found it that useful yet as I'm still learning the delta. Thus, I'm not sure whether I really want to spend the time and effort on this software/IT thing as I have not found the usefulness of delta yet. Not saying that the delta is useless, its just that weighing the time, effort in understanding Investor R/T-marketdelta software may not be worth it if I ultimately cannot make a strategy out of the delta or get the delta to help in my trading. Ok, flaming, advise welcome.

I understand that. Delta patterns are like price/volume patterns. Need to watch it for a while and spend some time before it becomes useful. I know migrating to new software is always a pain in the butt though :(

My kindest wishes,
MK
More...
 
Alann,

You, Bolter and myself seems to agree on the old version. Yes, it was much simpler to use. That's one thing I like about simple softwares and many times I find myself willing to pay more for this simplicity and willing to forgo some features that might be beneficial as it was too complex for my simple IT skills. Despite the quirks in the old version, I've never complained once to Trevor, however with this new version, I've written him emails, talk to him etc--all in the space of a week! I wish all the best to users that are making this transition and may all the struggles be worthwhile to those who are willing to rough it out.


Quote from alann:

Bolter,

You are not the only one who is doing the beta testing. I'm a member of this club too!!!!

This new platform. imho, is over complicated. I'm a new user and just got used to the old version of MD. From my point of view, the beauty of MD was that you were not reliant on lagging technical indicators; now we have 130 of them to choose from.

Try putting up a candlestick and footprint chart, simultaneously, and you can't minimise the candlestick. It can be open or closed.
You can't drag the footprint chart to size, with the candlestick chart running on the same screen. Well, I couldn't get it to.

Despite, it's quirks the old version was very simple to use and did the job that it was supposed to do. Why the quirks couldn't have been ironed out, whilst retaining the core application, is something that I find hard to understand.
More...
 
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