margin spx vs ES

met1989 said:
why is that the margin on ES options is smaller the the requirement on spx? is it coming from the exchange level?
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You must have a Reg-T account which is not risk-based while futures margin is. Portfolio margin and futures are more similar. Both risk based.
 
Even with a PM account, margin is substantially higher being short SPX options vs ES. Just the way they treat futures. One is SEC regulated, one is CFTC regulated. With my PM account if I am short SPX put options naked, they generally want about $40,000 per contract in margin, as they look down 15%. Overnight ES futures margin runs me about $5,000 per contract. So being short 1 spx put that is trading at .05 and is out of the money would cost me 4x the margin as 2 ES futures. Even though my potential loss would be much greater with the futures (as the puts are out of the money).
 
FSU said:
Even with a PM account, margin is substantially higher being short SPX options vs ES. Just the way they treat futures. One is SEC regulated, one is CFTC regulated. With my PM account if I am short SPX put options naked, they generally want about $40,000 per contract in margin, as they look down 15%. Overnight ES futures margin runs me about $5,000 per contract. So being short 1 spx put that is trading at .05 and is out of the money would cost me 4x the margin as 2 ES futures. Even though my potential loss would be much greater with the futures (as the puts are out of the money).
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FSU-OCC TIMS margin and CME SPAN are similar. Your down 15% is a risk control from your broker/clearing firm. Risk controls at every FCM will vary. As an example, INTL FC Stone shocks +/-10%, +/- 20 VOL points. We just do not allow aggressive option selling in futures.
 
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You guys are driving me nuts.
Nobody's even gotten *close* to MOST most most correct answer.

Imagine that you're a speaker at a 'retail' financial conference, and it's time for Q&A, and met1989 steps to the microphone and asks his question. Respond -- to the specific question and to the entire audience....
 
tommcginnis said:
You guys are driving me nuts.
Nobody's even gotten *close* to MOST most most correct answer.

Imagine that you're a speaker at a 'retail' financial conference, and it's time for Q&A, and met1989 steps to the microphone and asks his question. Respond -- to the specific question and to the entire audience....
More...

I'll take a stab at it...Because the ES is leveraged, while the SPX is not?

P.S. tom, don't beat me up too much on this if I got it wrong. I have no idea about options. Options people are crazy.
 
tommcginnis said:
ou guys are driving me nuts.
Nobody's even gotten *close* to MOST most most correct answer.
More...

Well, I did, but maybe I was not clear. What your broker offers you is a combination of margin and risk limits. As a retail trader with a retail platform, it is hard to tell the difference. The OCC governs SPX margin and shocks an SPX portfolio -8%/+6% in a PMA which is a risk based margin method. Reg-T is much stricter. ES is based on CME SPAN margin which requirements are risk based like PMA margin. So to answer his question, ES margin is lower because it is risk based and reg-t is not. If met1989 were to qualify for a PMA, SPX margin and ES margin would be very similar.

FSU is finding his ES requirement lower, as his FCM is not adding the same risk metric on top of CME SPAN that his equity clearing firm is adding to SPX margin.

Does that help...would not want you too crazy!
 
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