Map to SAC
- Thread starter NatTrader
- Start date
Thanks for all the feedbacks. I still have a follow up question on the heads of the desks at IBs. I assume that these people are part of the Sales and Trading division of IB. They would generally take the other sides of the customers and their goal is to stay positive or flat. Are their skills and disciplines readily applicable to the hedge funds?
Do the head of swaps trading and head of CDO people from the Capital Market side of the IB? E.g., people who create these products and trade them from time to time? Does the head of sta-arb sit on the prop desk?
Is this a trader's forum or english class? geez
The guy managed to meet Cohen in person and your picking at his grammer. Are you serious?
The guy managed to meet Cohen in person and your picking at his grammer. Are you serious?
Quote from limitdown:
I'm sorry, how can you say you were successful with all these spelling and context mistakes?
Exactly what were you trying to say?
Are you in present or past tense?
Start over, so we can get a much more correct impression and care to read your thread.....
I never claimed that I am successful. No, I havenât met Steve Cohen yet.
Here is my second shot at asking the basic question.
One year and half ago I left the software industry to give full time trading a shot. I naively thought that day trading is highly regarded by the Wall Street. I have some success in trading, but not enough. For example, the people I know at the prop shops are making quarter a mill to half a mill a year, but I am only making a fraction of that.
I left the software industry partly to explore full-time possibilities in hedge funds like SAC. In the last year and half, I applied to Columbia Business School and got in. I wanted to leverage CBS, my not-too-stellar caltech undergraduate (3.4), my passion for the financial market, and my trading experience to eventually reach my goal. The point of post was to get some advice and some realistic feedbacks. Perhaps someone in similar shoes can benefit from the replies as well.
Here are the notable responses.
1) Academic route: Get published in a second rate financial journal by partnering with professors. Question, rufus
id the person who published get hired by the head of desk in the prop department? If not, how did he jump to manage the $200 M fund?
2) Analyst route: (correct me if I am wrong) Work in an I-Bank as sell side research analyst. Or work as an analyst in a hedge fund itself.
3) Track record route: (Suggested by Steve Cohen himself) Work for the First New York bank as a prop trader and build a track record.
Here is my second shot at asking the basic question.
One year and half ago I left the software industry to give full time trading a shot. I naively thought that day trading is highly regarded by the Wall Street. I have some success in trading, but not enough. For example, the people I know at the prop shops are making quarter a mill to half a mill a year, but I am only making a fraction of that.
I left the software industry partly to explore full-time possibilities in hedge funds like SAC. In the last year and half, I applied to Columbia Business School and got in. I wanted to leverage CBS, my not-too-stellar caltech undergraduate (3.4), my passion for the financial market, and my trading experience to eventually reach my goal. The point of post was to get some advice and some realistic feedbacks. Perhaps someone in similar shoes can benefit from the replies as well.
Here are the notable responses.
1) Academic route: Get published in a second rate financial journal by partnering with professors. Question, rufus
id the person who published get hired by the head of desk in the prop department? If not, how did he jump to manage the $200 M fund? 2) Analyst route: (correct me if I am wrong) Work in an I-Bank as sell side research analyst. Or work as an analyst in a hedge fund itself.
3) Track record route: (Suggested by Steve Cohen himself) Work for the First New York bank as a prop trader and build a track record.
First of all, SAC would hire a Schonfeld trader if his track record suited their requirements. Having worked for them, and having a few friends at SAC and Schonfeld still, the time parameters of your trading style do not matter. What would matter is that it can trade in all types of markets and be consistently profitable (Bull Bear flat trending consolidating etc.).
To answer your question, your goals lack the focus to allow you to become a great trader. Your goal should not be to work at SAC, but to find a situation where you can thrive as a trader. This is only after you have found and perfected the implementation of a strategy that suits your personality and risk tolerance.
The easiest way into the business is to buy in. Contact Schonfeld directly, http://www.schonfeld.com . You can open an account and trade there. Let them know what your goals are. That you want to trade for them in a proprietary capacity. Keep sending the HR department your monthly reports. Trade from one of their offices and make your own mark.
But 1st realize when trading you are going up against the cream of the crop. Make sure you know how to make money consistently before you waste their time and burn leads.
To answer your question, your goals lack the focus to allow you to become a great trader. Your goal should not be to work at SAC, but to find a situation where you can thrive as a trader. This is only after you have found and perfected the implementation of a strategy that suits your personality and risk tolerance.
The easiest way into the business is to buy in. Contact Schonfeld directly, http://www.schonfeld.com . You can open an account and trade there. Let them know what your goals are. That you want to trade for them in a proprietary capacity. Keep sending the HR department your monthly reports. Trade from one of their offices and make your own mark.
But 1st realize when trading you are going up against the cream of the crop. Make sure you know how to make money consistently before you waste their time and burn leads.
I give you an A for effort only. You are doomed for many reasons. The least of which is your inability to realize exactly why you want to work for SAC. Is it because of bragging rights? I suspect so.
Quote from NatTrader:
Great. Thanks for telling me that I cannot make it. That will make you number... 200?
Quote from NatTrader:
Great. Thanks for telling me that I cannot make it. That will make you number... 200?
Why would you want to work for SAC anyway? He's just a capital provider like anyone else out there. Generally speaking, if you are good enough, you can find endless supplies of capital everywhere. The key is being good enough. While SAC has some outstanding traders that you can learn from, you need to be outstanding yourself to walk in there (unless you are lucky enough to get a job as a very junior guy). I suspect as the other poster pointed out, your goal is prestige. Everyone falls in this trap, no shame involved. It certainly helps in picking up girls (at least ones that know about SAC). The goal should be finding an environment that will help you to develop your skills as a trader and provide you with sufficient capital and a fair payout commensurate with your progress. Advantage to being at SAC is the power to command first call stature on the street, very talented collegues and endless supplies of capital. The downside is ultra-competitive environment, lower payout than many other firms (I think it's 28% now) and high barrier to entry. I don't think that SAC has any special training that will allow a greater edge.
I'll make it very simple. Here is what should matter to a trader (not in any particular order).
1-Initial capital available.
2-Upside, additional capital to grow into as you show success.
3-Environment, support, training, mentorship, etc.
4-Software and hardware made available.
5-Costs such as desk costs, commissions etc.
6-Risk funder is willing to endure (if you have a bad month after a great year will they cut you quickly).
7-Trading limitations (What can I trade, stocks futures options, and am I limited or will they let me expand as I want) and size limitations.
8-Security. Is the Firm financially secure or even after a great year on your part will you be looking for another job because they were under-funded
-SPLIT****** Do you get 10%, 28% or 50%. Some prop shops will give you as much as 75%-90% but you must put up some capital of your own as security. Depends on your risk tolerance and goals.
THIS IS WHAT MATTERS, NOT THAT YOU TRADE FOR SAC.
1-Initial capital available.
2-Upside, additional capital to grow into as you show success.
3-Environment, support, training, mentorship, etc.
4-Software and hardware made available.
5-Costs such as desk costs, commissions etc.
6-Risk funder is willing to endure (if you have a bad month after a great year will they cut you quickly).
7-Trading limitations (What can I trade, stocks futures options, and am I limited or will they let me expand as I want) and size limitations.
8-Security. Is the Firm financially secure or even after a great year on your part will you be looking for another job because they were under-funded
-SPLIT****** Do you get 10%, 28% or 50%. Some prop shops will give you as much as 75%-90% but you must put up some capital of your own as security. Depends on your risk tolerance and goals.
THIS IS WHAT MATTERS, NOT THAT YOU TRADE FOR SAC.