Many Key Liberal's Don't Back Israel

[spect8or]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Do you know that I do not?

How would you know that I don't?

I know it's hard for you, but do try and grow up.

 

[spect8or]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

It takes time, and support of non fanatical leadership.

Just like dealing with racist sexist bigots like you, it takes time to reach a closed minded person.

Islamic legal scholars don't know, they too are guessing.

Just like we see with Biblical scholars...non one knows.

Those who are spiritual see the spirtual, those who are material see nothing but the materialistic point of view in scripture.

We see that in this "Christian" country, where materialsim and greed is rampant, where wealth and greed is put as a target of "Godliness" yet it is clear that wealth is an impediment to spiritual progress and salvation to anyone who reads the "plain" text of the New Testament.

No one who has spent time studying Islamic scripture would try and pretend it's as vague as and as open to interpretation as the Bible.

 

[Ivanovich]

Quote from spect8or:


This 'tolerance', however, is a far cry from what the term means in the 21st century.

Agreed, but that's not exactly a fair comparison, though. Comparing 21st century values to that period? I challenge you to pick a culture of that time that was comparable to now in terms of political correctness!

Quote from spect8or:

as well as a paedophile, given that he was attracted to a six year old, and had sex with her when she was nine.

All of what you said was true except this. This is a common misconception. His 9 year old wife was married to him to form an alliance between him and one of the Bedouin tribes outside of Medina. At that time it was not uncommon for a 9 year old to be married off, and there is no true proof that he ever had sex with her or had any physical involvement whatsoever. In fact, many scholars argue otherwise, saying how he truly loved Khadijah (who was his first wife) and that was where his true desires remained.

 

[Ivanovich]

Quote from spect8or:

No one who has spent time studying Islamic scripture would try and pretend it's as vague as and as open to interpretation as the Bible.

Agree wholeheartedly. I have Snooze (zzzz) on ignore, but I can see when you quote him (unfortunately). He's as knowledgable about Islam as he is about everythigng else in the world (which is to say, he is an idiot).

 

[claywilk]

Quote from Ivanovich:

At that time it was not uncommon for a 9 year old to be married off, and there is no true proof that he ever had sex with her or had any physical involvement whatsoever. In fact, many scholars argue otherwise, saying how he truly loved Khadijah (who was his first wife) and that was where his true desires remained.

Someone in the future is going to say " At that time (early 21st Century) it was not uncommon for muslims to interpret the Koran in such a way that caused them to be homocidal maniacs" I find it hard to be apologetic for a pedophile no matter what!

 

[Ivanovich]

Quote from claywilk:

Someone in the future is going to say " At that time (early 21st Century) it was not uncommon for muslims to interpret the Koran in such a way that caused them to be homocidal maniacs" I find it hard to be apologetic for a pedophile no matter what!

Perhaps. But again, there is no proof he actually had any physical relationship with her. It was most likely a marriage done for an alliance, nothing more.

Second, you should really go back in time and see just how many people (famous or otherwise) had sex with or married girls under the age of 18.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

In other words, there is no evidence that you are right, there is no evidence that Mulahs are right....nor is their evidence that they are wrong.

My point exactly.

Therefore my opinion that what Mohammad intended is just as valid as the opinion of any Mulah.

You can desist with your condescending statements of "grow up."

Quote from spect8or:

How would you know that I don't?

I know it's hard for you, but do try and grow up.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

No one?

LMAO...

Your dogmatic thinking is obvious...

The hubris of you know what the right way to read a particular scripture is obvious.

Quote from spect8or:

No one who has spent time studying Islamic scripture would try and pretend it's as vague as and as open to interpretation as the Bible.

 

[bsmeter]

Quote from Ivanovich:


Incidently, I am Catholic. Not practicing, but Catholic - not muslim. I just read an enormous amount on Islam in my studies.

This is very interesting. Individuals who are extreme right wing type Christians are the first to convert to Islam because it's a even more extreme religion than the most extreme versions of Christianity.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9184353144432289069&q=islam

 

[bsmeter]

Here's a video link for those who want to delve further into the beginnings of modern neo-fundamentalist Islam. neo-fundamentalist Islamists claim violence against moderate and liberal muslims is permissible. Incidently, neo-conservatives also think violence against liberals and moderates is permissible.

http://elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1146658#post1146658