man vs machine

P

panta_rhei

Hi,

I'm very new to the whole topic. I was reading "Trading in the zone", and I've got the impression that the main issue in successful trading is the right attidude and discipline, which is probably nobody answering back.

I'm also aware of the fact that trading gets more and more automated, which especially regarding the discipline-matter is totally logically, so I was wondering to what degree this goes on and where there gonna remain the opportunities for "humans" within trading.

Is it gonna be all about coming up with new trading strategies and then to program sth which gonna execute the strategies or are there gonna remain opportunities in actual trading?

Which specific areas are affected stronger compared to others?

What's about "intuition"? One of our many (still!?) huge advantages, especially relevant in trading??

I'd really appreciate your oppinions about it!
 
Intuition is still a huge part of trading. The best trader at a very reputable shop in Chicago was an intuitive trader. When you say man vs. machine, it's literally, in many cases, a man's intuition (or discipline, perception, or whatever skill) vs. a computer. That is why it is imperative, and this was emphasized at this shop, to be a stone-cold machine when trading...after all that is often your competition.
 
Quote from VTI0990:

Intuition is still a huge part of trading. The best trader at a very reputable shop in Chicago was an intuitive trader. When you say man vs. machine, it's literally, in many cases, a man's intuition (or discipline, perception, or whatever skill) vs. a computer. That is why it is imperative, and this was emphasized at this shop, to be a stone-cold machine when trading...after all that is often your competition.
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sorry I don't want to get you wrong: you say it's imperative to be a stone-cold machine when trading but does that not rule out intuition?
 
Quote from panta_rhei:

... I've got the impression that the main issue in successful trading is the right attidude and discipline ...
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This is what a lot of people think but actually having a trading system with an edge is the main issue. There's not much good in having "the right attitude and discipline" if your system can't make money.
 
Quote from rickty:

This is what a lot of people think but actually having a trading system with an edge is the main issue. There's not much good in having "the right attitude and discipline" if your system can't make money.
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well ok, the right trading system is of course the indispensable basis but my guess is it's easier to get access to a good system (if necessary buy one) than to develop the right attitude and discipline which are needed to use one correctly!?
 
Quote from panta_rhei:

sorry I don't want to get you wrong: you say it's imperative to be a stone-cold machine when trading but does that not rule out intuition?
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Let me clarify.

When I said you need to be a stone-cold machine, I mean that you need to be able to make decisions that are in-line with 1 goal and 1 goal only: to make money. Of course you're human, so being absolutely emotionless is difficult, if not impossible. But you basically become the trading system, using your experience as the system. In my opinion, a trader who can get into an emotionless state and use his intuition to trade will always beat a system.

As I said, the best trader at that shop was an intuitive trader. In essence, he was an extremely expensive system. He made his trades not based on any emotion, but with the intent of making as much money as possible.

So to sum it up, being stone-cold doesn't mean you can't be human. It means that you can't let the negative attributes (as far as trading goes) affect your decision making process.
 
Quote from rickty:

This is what a lot of people think but actually having a trading system with an edge is the main issue. There's not much good in having "the right attitude and discipline" if your system can't make money.
More...

Actually I disagree, especially with the last part. I don't know much about systems, I'll admit that. But there are people, and I have seen them, who do happen to have the right attitude and the necessary discipline. Trust me when I say they would be far, far more valuable to any prop shop than some dolt with a system. All systems will eventually not make money anymore. A good trader who has "the right attitude and discipline" will adapt to the market and continue making money. As a matter of fact, he will most likely be exploiting that change to his advantage.
 
Quote from traderdragon2:

Trading in the Zone = psychological gobblygook horseshit.
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What is your reason for saying this? I am not trying to be confrontational, but I know some people who would completely disagree. Myself, I have not yet started to make consistent money as a trader, so I wouldn't be able to straight up say that you're wrong. But I know some people, a few of whom are literally some of Chicago's elite, who would disagree with you completely.


I forgot to ask, what is your track record in trading? I assume it must be pretty good, considering that bold statement you made.
 
Once you attain the right attitude and discipline you will place these trades like a machine.

I read in another thread that 90% of futures trading will be automated by 2010, I currently recieve forex signals from an automated system, most lose money. Traders will always be around because they have the ability to look beyond just the numbers. Also there will always be new players stepping up for the first time.
 
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