Man, Trading Is Depressing Now; No Energy

[musclemoney]

Quote from traderpro:

I agree if this was easy everyone would do it.




To the OP Learn how to deal with the ups and downs of this business. Good times and bad times will come and go. When times get tough if you don't deal with the emotions you can ruin relationships with family and friends. Better luck to you trading

I've noticed a personality/mood change when I began managing opm. Years ago, I would be up doing cardio at 0600, and instead of going out for lunch, going to the gym for 45 minutes of weights (and shower!), then do my compound movements with weights at 2100. All the while dieting, weighing and preparing food, etc., for a bodybuilding competition.

Years later, I do not compete, and do well to train with weights three days a week in the evenings. For the last TWO MONTHS, I have sat and watched what was a +6% YTD Portfolio I manage go to what is now -60bps, and haven't touched a weight or cardio machine. I've got a good gym in the basement too. I look at charts, data, news , etc., all day, and don't have the drive to bring in new Clients, nor maintain what was once a hard core training regimen...

I think bylowsellhi is onto something. All the constant "analyzation" we do may have "side effects." Traderpro has a point as well with relationships. My Wife says, "stop trying to explain a scenario for the kids about life as it were some stock in the market!" Most true friends of mine are in totally different Professions, and have absoultely no clue what the market really does, besides make big news when it's down. When my mind is on "what's the market potentially going to do tomorrow," I'm not really "in" a conversation with them, and they can tell. It's strange having a ticker on the brain all the time...

I'm going to have to get over it, and start training again, as I know that will lift some of the fog I've been in this year. As for being a little burned out with the current markets and economy, I won't say that. I will say I have some serious heart burn with the current econimic situation. I'm taking my Wife and Sons (dog too ) to the beach soon, and am leaving the crackberryheaded phone in the off mode, and not watching ANY news other than the weather. I think that will help!


I'll note that other money managers I have been speaking with are perplexed right now too. Some are managing big $$$, and not happy at all as they too are long the markets. I've been writing some calls, and buying puts, but am still down YTD, and didn't expect it to bleed like this...

 

[Leonidas]

Quote from DHOHHI:

And that's what makes for great trading. Gotta be quick with entries & exits.

Are you a pro with years of experience and a big war chest? If you aren't, you are dancing with the devil trading this market. These random parabolic moves can pay you, but they can also punish you.

A lot of these moves are driven by fear, algos & players with the war chest and skill to know where to nudge the market to send it over the cliff. Be careful.

Quote from musclemoney:



I'm going to have to get over it...

Dude, you're just all stressed to hell. Things aren't going well and they're taking a toll. Google stress management, or look into performance coaching.

 

[DHOHHI]

Quote from Leonidas:

Are you a pro with years of experience and a big war chest? If you aren't, you are dancing with the devil trading this market. These random parabolic moves can pay you, but they can also punish you.

A lot of these moves are driven by fear, algos & players with the war chest and skill to know where to nudge the market to send it over the cliff. Be careful.

I've been full time for 12 1/2 years. Been through the late 90's bull market, the crash in early 2000 and subsequent years of bearishness and everything else since then. I've traded all kinds of markets. One has to adapt to the market in order to survive long term IMO. I certainly realize one can get burned in any market but if you know yourself, have control of your emotions and are disciplined you can make $$$ consistently.

 

[dsq]

Quote from musclemoney:

I've noti.... the off mode, and not watching ANY news other than the weather. I think that will help!

Its called not seeing the forest from the trees.The more analytical and obsessed you get the more myopic and tunnel vision you get...
its also called getting a life!Markets can consume you 24/7...like an addiction?
Also market speculation is not productive.Its not like being a teacher or doctor where you feel good about helping others.You get no social feedback.
Its a very tough gig.No such thing as easy money.

 

[austinp]

<i>"I have great confidence that anyone that thinks this is easy trading will be busted out in good time."</i>

"easy trading" comes along about two sessions per month on average. That's where everything just clicks from bell to bell. All other days are pure work.

For sure these markets right now are ten times easier to trade than 2005 ~ 2006 when volatility was at decades' lows, intraday ranges were 6pts to 10pts ES total for the entire day.

Skilled intraday traders may be briefly challenged at times right now, but it sure is far easier than periods of time where VIX levels at 11 or lower.

 

[musclemoney]

Quote from Leonidas:

Are you a pro with years of experience and a big war chest? If you aren't, you are dancing with the devil trading this market. These random parabolic moves can pay you, but they can also punish you.

A lot of these moves are driven by fear, algos & players with the war chest and skill to know where to nudge the market to send it over the cliff. Be careful.



Dude, you're just all stressed to hell. Things aren't going well and they're taking a toll. Google stress management, or look into performance coaching.

You got it!

However, training with weights, and doing cardio of different types (1.5 mile Ocean swim, a 5 mile run, etc.,), is my stress buster. Just have to get squared away, and do it.

I'm a Combat Veteran, and know a little about the management of stress. I just forget now and then.:eek:

 

[musclemoney]

Quote from dsq:

Its called not seeing the forest from the trees.The more analytical and obsessed you get the more myopic and tunnel vision you get...
its also called getting a life!Markets can consume you 24/7...like an addiction?
Also market speculation is not productive.Its not like being a teacher or doctor where you feel good about helping others.You get no social feedback.
Its a very tough gig.No such thing as easy money.

A veteran money manager told me "money that comes easy goes away fast." So true...

 

[Mvic]

BuyLo you are probably just playing too large or too many instruments. The volatility is such that much smaller positions that you can stick with pay off better than large positions you get shaken out of. If you insist on playing big you can keep yourself from getting shaken by doing things like being long LEH puts and shorting SKF on pops. Also don't try and play everything, choose a few instruments to take a position in and don't jump around all over the market playing whack a mole.

Another type of trading that works well in this market is to wait for a decent set up to occur and then buy and get out quick rather than trying to catch a huge move. If you wait until your defined risk is small (ie very close to support or trend line etc) you don't need much movement to get a good risk reward ratio going. You may not bank huge coin doing this type of quick trading but with volatility as high as it is high probability set ups are plentiful and the points add up day after day and sometimes you get lucky when whatever you are in goes on a tear.

Above all do not chase and wait wait wait some more to get your price, if you don't get it and the instrument runs don't sweat it, you will get another chance soon enough.

I like the poker analogy I read somewhere recently, only play the best hands and don't waste your money on a weak hand because in such a volatile market it can quickly become a very expensive hand.

Ignoring the news and just trading price action and the charts can also help as you are not getting the cognitive dissonance of having your analystical mind tell you to expect one thing (macro) that takes place ins much higher time frame with what price is doing in the short term.

 

[musclemoney]

Quote from Mvic:

BuyLo you are probably just playing too large or too many instruments. The volatility is such that much smaller positions that you can stick with pay off better than large positions you get shaken out of. If you insist on playing big you can keep yourself from getting shaken by doing things like being long LEH puts and shorting SKF on pops. Also don't try and play everything, choose a few instruments to take a position in and don't jump around all over the market playing whack a mole.

Another type of trading that works well in this market is to wait for a decent set up to occur and then buy and get out quick rather than trying to catch a huge move. If you wait until your defined risk is small (ie very close to support or trend line etc) you don't need much movement to get a good risk reward ratio going. You may not bank huge coin doing this type of quick trading but with volatility as high as it is high probability set ups are plentiful and the points add up day after day and sometimes you get lucky when whatever you are in goes on a tear.

Above all do not chase and wait wait wait some more to get your price, if you don't get it and the instrument runs don't sweat it, you will get another chance soon enough.

I like the poker analogy I read somewhere recently, only play the best hands and don't waste your money on a weak hand because in such a volatile market it can quickly become a very expensive hand.

Ignoring the news and just trading price action and the charts can also help as you are not getting the cognitive dissonance of having your analystical mind tell you to expect one thing (macro) that takes place ins much higher time frame with what price is doing in the short term.

That's great advice! I might print this post, and tape it to my monitors.

 

[drsteph]

Quote from piezoe:

ByLo, I understand what you are saying, if you were not short earlier and had the conviction and deep pockets to hold through many mini-squeezes you could easily feel that you have missed out on golden opportunities. However i find this market quite lovely. Think of it this way: trading opportunities abound, and as each day passes the opportunities for long term profits grow. I have been selling puts at outrageous prices and am happy to lap up anything i get assigned. I sold UCBH Dec 2.5 puts for 0.50 the other day and today FTO made a double bottom and I sold some puts. But still keeping boodles of cash on the sidelines in my investment accounts so that i can rush headlong into the long side when we finally get that wave of panic capitulation selling down to 1050 or where ever we land. I don't mind if i'm in at the absolute bottom. Be patient, you'll have the last laugh. Remember we are exempt from the public relations constraints of the big funds and the stupid actions of the twenty something fund managers. We can gorge on bargains all over the place.

I love this market! Haven't seen opportunity like this since the 2000 crash, and before we are done i'll likely be able to say "not in my lifetime". THIS MARKET ROCKS!!!

Not to put Buylo down, 'cause I've read his posts and don't put him into the idiot/ignore category, but..

I was almost gonna post the same thing Piezoe except didn't want to jinx myself! This market rocks!!!

I've been playing it around a 'turning point' strategy where this major support level exists for characterization of a "long term bear market". We haven't gotten confirmation yet, although its only a matter of time. By trading aroud this point, I feel like I'm delta trading (just minus the options). Its fantastic! 5-7% moves daily in the TWM and I've gotten within 0.5 of the high/low not infrequently. What I did in the retirement acct with this offsets the unpleasantness from beta issues in the rest of my otherwise fairly well hedged portfolio.

Yes, eventually it will end. Probably tomorrow or monday. But in doing so, it has a reasonable chance of indicating to us the direction of the next move, which if down might be very significant and warrant a more structural short play. So I'll get hit when that happens, but its ok, since the small loss will more than be repaid in longer term profit.

Good luck to everyone unless you're on the opposite side of me... then screw off.