Making JH' SCT and all his material alive

[Sprout]

View attachment 204054

- first BO,T1 is after an Ab EE.
MT test : the only place where I can locate a (n-1 = Ab) -> (n=BO,T1) is in the Routine's Set B. As I know, the process is, no matter how we choose to start, self-correcting.
So when that first BO,T1 comes, let's say we're in Set B AND, being as the n EE is in the list, we have C-turn AND if we were in a Set B, the prior event in the OOE of turns must have been A-turn AND then, when 10:05 bar comes, we enter into a Set A of trends. Let's label it this way and go forward.

We are in Set A, at next EE, n-1 EE will be BO,T1, so we'll be looking in the FS's cell of Set A if next EE is listed.

- next EE is PP5. It is present in the list of n EEs, so we have C-turn, a Set A has been completed.

We are in Set A, next EE, n-1 EE will be PP5. We'll have to look into the Routine cell of Set A to search for a pairing. BUT, in this cell of MT, no PP5 is there in the n-1 list. We will not find any pairing (if that is true, there's a Aha being unlocked as for "you know one turn in advance). My current DD -> we'll not have C-turn, so we'll have A turn. AND, to know if this A-turn will be still part of a Set A or not, we'll do MR test.

- next EE is BM,rev. As stated just above, we have no pairing. We have A-turn. Is that part of a Set A or do we advance in Set B ?
We do MR test. My current DD -> I look into the MR, in Routine's cell of Set A (because the n EE is a PP!). There is no PP5 listed. So there is no reversal so there is no C-turn so there is an A-turn SO we are now into a Set B.

We are in Set B. At next EE, n-1 EE will be BM,rev. So we'll have to look into FS's cell of Set B and look for a pairing.

- next EE is BO,T1. We have no pairing. We have B-turn, still in Set B. Are we going to Set C?
MR test : My current DD : I look into the FS's cell of Set B of the MR and search for a reversal when BO,T1 is a B-turn -> it is present (here I don't know if my reasoning follows the logic of the MR). There is a possibility to find a B-turn with BO,T1. So I'd say here we stay into Set B. The B-turn is inbetween () of a Set B.

We are in Set B, at next EE, n-1 EE will be BO,T1 and we'll be looking into the FS's cell of Set B of MT to search for a pairing.

- next EE is PP3. From BO,T1, there is no pairing so there is no C-turn, so we have A-turn. Are we going to Set C ?
MR test


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I was just gonna erase all this, as it appears clear to me I'm not getting it. I need to reread your posts about the MR.

For example


I need to unlock this.

In your first c turn it would be the completion of trend Set B.

Look at Jack's posted logs and see how the turn types and trend types progress.

Additionally,
With this chart, see what happens when the first turn is labeled as b or as c turn. The turn and trend types will cascade. The main difference will be how do those align with the slower fractal overlap and turn in the center of your chart.

 

[Simples]

Interesting notion and OP. I believe "leftmost" most often refers to log columns. Search yields few hits:

2. do reverse chron tests to get a leftmost true.
a. look in the log leftmost columns to see the "turn" sequence underway.
For bar 4 you go to the B band through K band EE sheet as a simple consequence of the T in the T2P cell for the volume test procedure. As you
see there are F's in all other places just to be thorough (incase of a "leftmost" decision making situation.
If you have a true use it. If you have more than one true use the leftmost ture.
"If you have T for more than one peak, then you use the "leftmost" peak."
If you have T for more than one peak, then you use the "leftmost" peak. P1 wins a lot of these tests.
I hold thru a signal if the two leftmost arrows are the same but different than the sentiment. This is what is known in CW as the beginning o
f a retrace and NOT the beginning of a reversal. Thus, I hold thru non-dominant legs of trends.
I number the leftmost column with bar's numbers. Over on the right the bar number appears for the actin where there is an R in the D and the
A columns. D is decision and A is ACTION.
Lastly, you know you know one turn before the final turn. The final turns are on 8 panels. They are in rightmost columns whereby the next to
last turn is in a leftmost column.
Now you can look at the row. You find the leftmost T and fill that element name in in the EVENT cell.
PP4a /P1 leftmost/ P2
T2P and T2F. They follow an order of events. P is asigned and other P1's are larger than the assigned. Ti is after a P1 when it is less tha
n a P1. After a T1 the next peak is a P@ and never a P1. This forms the A band of bands. A P1 may follow a P2 if it exceeds the prior P1.
P2's can follow P2's if the prior P2 is exceeded. when any peak question occurs use the leftmost in the test as written on the log.

In my own DD, I use new T1's and P1's to evolve A-band. Also found these snippets (unsure where the chart / attachment is for the 1st below and might not be applicable to this, but nonetheless interesting for discussion):

Of these next bars (55 and 56) the first is a T1 (55) and at the very beginning of the second of the next bars (56) you go short. I do not do
"confirmation". For CW traders the confirmation is the PRV and actual volume exceeding the TI volume (bar 56).
What comes after and P2 that is less than the P2 and more than the most recent T1 is called a T2P. It is the beginning of the third price move in a trend.

However, effect of using Very First T1 as lower limit may have practical benefits and wouldn't yield huge differences as multiple T1's tend to end trend prematurely.

 

[WchPl]

I need to reread your posts about the MR.

As Jack has stated, "we can know a know a thing by knowing what it is not."

In the case that a pattern is incomplete this pattern gets interrupted from M2 -> M3 and the return to Dominance of the current trend and becomes the M1 of the new interrupting trend as b2b2r2r/r2r2b2b.

In the case that a pattern is complete this pattern is not interrupted and completes as an archetypal pattern M1 -> M2 -> M3.

In the case that the pattern extends itself, then M1 -> M2 -> M3 -> M2 -> M3 or b2b2r2b2r2b/r2r2b2r2b2r.

Let's order the mind and DD some, maybe, decisive items.

When in the pattern,

Considering the short container

- the only appearing move is short. It is dominant inside that container, so volume is INC. It's short until price stops going toward the LFT. It was coming from the RTL. So, this is an ftt.

Considering the long container

- when pt1 arrives, it is sync'd with prior ftt of short container. Until price BO the short container, price is non dominant. So volume is DEC.

- when price BO short RTL, volume passes from DEC to INC on the same color and same trend (long).
In gaussian terms, we've B2B
In SCT terms, we have a ftt/pt1 = beginning of M1
In RDBMS we have a change in dominance at ftt = C-turn (Set A is beginning)

- when price creates pt2, volume passes from INC to DEC. This is the end of the dominant move and the beginning of the non dominant move.
In gaussian terms, we have 2R
In SCT terms, we have pt2 = End of M1 and beginning of M2
In RDBMS terms, we have A-turn (and here begins the tricky side : either still in Set A, or in Set B)

- when price creates pt3, volume passes from DEC to INC. This is the return to the dominance.
In gaussian terms, we have 2B. The sequence has been so far B2B2R2B. The trend is completed
In SCT terms, we have pt3 = end of M2 and beginning of M3
In RDBMS terms, we have B-turn (either still in Set A, or in Set B or in Set C)

You state that "In the case that a pattern is incomplete this pattern gets interrupted from M2 -> M3 and the return to Dominance of the current trend and becomes the M1 of the new interrupting trend as b2b2r2r/r2r2b2b."

B2B = from pt1 to pt2 = M1
2R = from pt2 to pt3 = M2
2B = from pt3 to ftt = M3

As I understand what you say, I DD that when a trend is interrupted from M2->M3 and the return to dominance, it means it is interrupted between M2 and M3. So pts 1, 2 and 3 are there already being as M2 ends at pt3. And then we would have B2B2R to R2R. Maybe this is what you mean when you write "b2b2r2r" like "b2b 2 r2r".

To help me with that, as I understand that, in the deep, the problem I have with MT/MR deals and echoes and comes from the fractal levels overlapping, I just built the following to help my eye to understand better.

It surely needs a refinement.

In your first c turn it would be the completion of trend Set B.

Yes, that's the conclusion to which I arrived.

Look at Jack's posted logs and see how the turn types and trend types progress.

For example, if I take this one :

- at Bar 2 we have A-turn in a Set D. We're drifting. What's the only turn that can come after an A-turn into a Set D ? B-turn. So on bar 4, we have B-turn, in Set D.
- at bar 6 we have a C-turn on the upper row, and it's completing the Set D. We are still in Set D. On the lower level, we have A-turn so MT said no C-turn, but MR said "don't go to Set B". So we're still in Set A.
- at bar 8, we have a C-turn ending finally a Set B. The MR certainly let know at this moment we were now in Set B, and we are ending with it.
at bar 10, new C-turn, we're in Set A, ending it.
- at bar 14, A-turn but still in Set A so MR must have not allowed to progress forward to Set B.
- at bar 17 we have B-turn and we're in Set B.

What comes to my mind from that log is that there is plenty of times when the turns contradict (and it's because of the MR test, I think) the archetypal ubication of them into each trend, if we look only at the MT.
In MT, Set A can't have an A-turn -> in this log it happens 2 times
In MT, Set B can't have B-turn -> in this log it happens one time.

I think your advice/suggestion/asking to watch at JH's log was very good. I'll study a couple of them and try to unlock something being as I have the EEs on the log the turns, and trend types annotated, so to speak, all the necessary.

There were two reasons why until now I did not want to study JH's logs :

-> I don't know if it was really him who did it
-> I don't know if some errors was present intentionally to push to refinement
-> I was afraid of those logs cause in addition to the things I can't even read, there are a lot of things that are unknonw to me (especially those hand drawn arrows on the right part f the document).

But now, as I know you have a good timing sense and you bring the things when they are to be mentionned and to be done, I'll work on it and give my best to understand how MT/MR talk with each other.



Right now I feel tired. Yesterday was a 10 hours day of work, today i'm currently in my 11th hour.

I will do more tomorrow.

Thanks a lot for your reactivity today and I wish you the best. See you tomorrow

 

[Sprout]

Let's order the mind and DD some, maybe, decisive items.

When in the pattern,

Considering the short container

- the only appearing move is short. It is dominant inside that container, so volume is INC. It's short until price stops going toward the LFT. It was coming from the RTL. So, this is an ftt.

Considering the long container

- when pt1 arrives, it is sync'd with prior ftt of short container. Until price BO the short container, price is non dominant. So volume is DEC.

- when price BO short RTL, volume passes from DEC to INC on the same color and same trend (long).
In gaussian terms, we've B2B
In SCT terms, we have a ftt/pt1 = beginning of M1
In RDBMS we have a change in dominance at ftt = C-turn (Set A is beginning)

- when price creates pt2, volume passes from INC to DEC. This is the end of the dominant move and the beginning of the non dominant move.
In gaussian terms, we have 2R
In SCT terms, we have pt2 = End of M1 and beginning of M2
In RDBMS terms, we have A-turn (and here begins the tricky side : either still in Set A, or in Set B)

- when price creates pt3, volume passes from DEC to INC. This is the return to the dominance.
In gaussian terms, we have 2B. The sequence has been so far B2B2R2B. The trend is completed
In SCT terms, we have pt3 = end of M2 and beginning of M3
In RDBMS terms, we have B-turn (either still in Set A, or in Set B or in Set C)

You state that "In the case that a pattern is incomplete this pattern gets interrupted from M2 -> M3 and the return to Dominance of the current trend and becomes the M1 of the new interrupting trend as b2b2r2r/r2r2b2b."

B2B = from pt1 to pt2 = M1
2R = from pt2 to pt3 = M2
2B = from pt3 to ftt = M3

As I understand what you say, I DD that when a trend is interrupted from M2->M3 and the return to dominance, it means it is interrupted between M2 and M3. So pts 1, 2 and 3 are there already being as M2 ends at pt3. And then we would have B2B2R to R2R. Maybe this is what you mean when you write "b2b2r2r" like "b2b 2 r2r".

To help me with that, as I understand that, in the deep, the problem I have with MT/MR deals and echoes and comes from the fractal levels overlapping, I just built the following to help my eye to understand better.

View attachment 204066

It surely needs a refinement.




Yes, that's the conclusion to which I arrived.



For example, if I take this one :

View attachment 204068

- at Bar 2 we have A-turn in a Set D. We're drifting. What's the only turn that can come after an A-turn into a Set D ? B-turn. So on bar 4, we have B-turn, in Set D.
- at bar 6 we have a C-turn on the upper row, and it's completing the Set D. We are still in Set D. On the lower level, we have A-turn so MT said no C-turn, but MR said "don't go to Set B". So we're still in Set A.
- at bar 8, we have a C-turn ending finally a Set B. The MR certainly let know at this moment we were now in Set B, and we are ending with it.
at bar 10, new C-turn, we're in Set A, ending it.
- at bar 14, A-turn but still in Set A so MR must have not allowed to progress forward to Set B.
- at bar 17 we have B-turn and we're in Set B.

What comes to my mind from that log is that there is plenty of times when the turns contradict (and it's because of the MR test, I think) the archetypal ubication of them into each trend, if we look only at the MT.
In MT, Set A can't have an A-turn -> in this log it happens 2 times
In MT, Set B can't have B-turn -> in this log it happens one time.

I think your advice/suggestion/asking to watch at JH's log was very good. I'll study a couple of them and try to unlock something being as I have the EEs on the log the turns, and trend types annotated, so to speak, all the necessary.

There were two reasons why until now I did not want to study JH's logs :

-> I don't know if it was really him who did it
-> I don't know if some errors was present intentionally to push to refinement
-> I was afraid of those logs cause in addition to the things I can't even read, there are a lot of things that are unknonw to me (especially those hand drawn arrows on the right part f the document).

But now, as I know you have a good timing sense and you bring the things when they are to be mentionned and to be done, I'll work on it and give my best to understand how MT/MR talk with each other.



Right now I feel tired. Yesterday was a 10 hours day of work, today i'm currently in my 11th hour.

I will do more tomorrow.

Thanks a lot for your reactivity today and I wish you the best. See you tomorrow

When a turn is listed on the MR table it's just a signal whether to add a blob of boxed color on the turn. Blob of color is a move reversal and a reversal is signaled to a trader (depending if they are trading legs) or if no color then hold thru. On another level a trader can also wait for the c turns if they are trading ftts and hold thru all a and b turns. The MR has nothing to do whether a turn or a trend has ended, that is the function of the Modrian. It's only after MR is consulted when one advances to 'next.'

False positives do get outputted by the system. It's the function of the Failsafes to wash and stay on the correct side of the market as sentiment develops. Losses do occur but they are nothing like the drawdowns experienced by traders aligned with the CW paradigm.

 

[WchPl]

I will do more tomorrow.

I have serious internet conexion issues today. Don't know if I will be able to work.

 

[WchPl]

When a turn is listed on the MR table it's just a signal whether to add a blob of boxed color on the turn. Blob of color is a move reversal and a reversal is signaled to a trader (depending if they are trading legs) or if no color then hold thru. On another level a trader can also wait for the c turns if they are trading ftts and hold thru all a and b turns. The MR has nothing to do whether a turn or a trend has ended, that is the function of the Modrian. It's only after MR is consulted when one advances to 'next.'

I feel this is providing me a kind of Aha about MR.

I'm gonna watch at JH's log, use the quotation, try to understand how this works, and then I'll retake my last annotated chart and label all turns and trends.

 

[WchPl]

I'm gonna watch at JH's log

Bar 2 : EE is Ag, A-turn, Set D. Next turn will automatically be B-turn.

Bar 4 : EE is not labelled in the EE cell, nevertheless I can see BM,rev in add notes. B-turn is assigned on this bar, so we have B-turn, Set D. I suspect the current EE is BM,rev for what is writeen in the add notes.

Bar 6 : OB,
Upper row : BO,T1 from add notes. So the EE is BO,T1. We are in Set D, FS's cell. From BM,rev (n-1 EE), we can have in the n EE a BO,T1 so C-turn. Are we still in Set D or not ? -> MR test. Is there a C-turn on FS's cell given by BO,T1. Yes there is. MY DD -> So it's a move reversal inside Set D and it is ending it. We put the dark orange blob colored to the C-turn.

Lower row : T1 is the newt affected in the OOE so we have P1/T1 so we have a PP4 EE. Previously, the Set D has ended, so we have gone to "next" and therefore we are in Set A now. Our n-1 EE is BO,T1 so we look in the MT in FS's cell and search for a pairing between BO,T1 and the n EE which is PP4 : no pairing is found. So we have A-turn in Set A. Is that a move reversal ? -> MR test : is there in Set A an A-turn on PP4 EE ? We look in Routine's cell of Set A and yes there is a possibility of an A-turn on PP4. That A-turn is then a move reversal inside Set A. We have A-turn in Set A. When the subsequent EE comes, we'll be in Set B.

Bar 8 : EE is BO,T1, it's our n EE. Our n-1 EE is PP4 and we are in Set B. We have a pairing between the two, in the FS's cell of Set B. So the trend has ended, we have C-turn. Do we go next ? -> MR test : it is one of the two special cases as we have " **" saying -> if you have an "and" with FS's, "not both" becomes a move reversal. My understanding is then : if we have as EE both BO,T1 and BM,rev, there is no move reversal, and if there is only one of them, it is a move reversal. What is the case here ? We only have one FS, BO,T1, so it is "not both" so we have a move reversal.
So we have C-turn inside a Set B, ending it.
At subsequent EE, we'll be in Set A as Set B is completed.


To be continued..

 

[WchPl]

View attachment 204145

Bar 2 : EE is Ag, A-turn, Set D. Next turn will automatically be B-turn.

Bar 4 : EE is not labelled in the EE cell, nevertheless I can see BM,rev in add notes. B-turn is assigned on this bar, so we have B-turn, Set D. I suspect the current EE is BM,rev for what is writeen in the add notes.

Bar 6 : OB,
Upper row : BO,T1 from add notes. So the EE is BO,T1. We are in Set D, FS's cell. From BM,rev (n-1 EE), we can have in the n EE a BO,T1 so C-turn. Are we still in Set D or not ? -> MR test. Is there a C-turn on FS's cell given by BO,T1. Yes there is. MY DD -> So it's a move reversal inside Set D and it is ending it. We put the dark orange blob colored to the C-turn.

Lower row : T1 is the newt affected in the OOE so we have P1/T1 so we have a PP4 EE. Previously, the Set D has ended, so we have gone to "next" and therefore we are in Set A now. Our n-1 EE is BO,T1 so we look in the MT in FS's cell and search for a pairing between BO,T1 and the n EE which is PP4 : no pairing is found. So we have A-turn in Set A. Is that a move reversal ? -> MR test : is there in Set A an A-turn on PP4 EE ? We look in Routine's cell of Set A and yes there is a possibility of an A-turn on PP4. That A-turn is then a move reversal inside Set A. We have A-turn in Set A. When the subsequent EE comes, we'll be in Set B.

Bar 8 : EE is BO,T1, it's our n EE. Our n-1 EE is PP4 and we are in Set B. We have a pairing between the two, in the FS's cell of Set B. So the trend has ended, we have C-turn. Do we go next ? -> MR test : it is one of the two special cases as we have " **" saying -> if you have an "and" with FS's, "not both" becomes a move reversal. My understanding is then : if we have as EE both BO,T1 and BM,rev, there is no move reversal, and if there is only one of them, it is a move reversal. What is the case here ? We only have one FS, BO,T1, so it is "not both" so we have a move reversal.
So we have C-turn inside a Set B, ending it.
At subsequent EE, we'll be in Set A as Set B is completed.


To be continued..

Bar 10 : We're in Set A. n-1 EE was BO, T1. The new EE is PP3. We find the pairing, so we have C-turn. MR says it's a reversal move.

Bar 14 : n-1 EE was PP3. New EE is PP1. We are n Set A. Is there a pairing in MT ? No. We have A-turn then. Is there a MR ? ->yes, so we're still in Set A. At subsequent EE we'll be in Set B.

Bar 17 : n-1 EE was PP1. New EE is BM,rev. MT test : we have B-turn, in Set B.





The way I begin to understand MT/MR flow seems to sync with that log. That's just a beginning, no need for me to think/believe/declare/feel/say out loud I get it.

In the same veine of the above, right now I'm gonna do an attempt on labelling my last chart's turns/trends.

To be continued...

 

[WchPl]

In the same veine of the above, right now I'm gonna do an attempt on labelling my last chart's turns/trends.

To be continued...

I noticed a couple of things :

- sometimes, in functino of the n EE, we already know we won't find it in the n-1 list of next trend Set. I suspect the reason why is because of missed ID of EE.
It happened on 10:20 bar with PP5. After refining a bit, on 10:20 I saw better a BO,T1 and AND PP4 rather than PP5 as I had ID'd it at first.
OB still bother me as for drawing TLs.

- the issue zone is when Ag is ID. I can't find a way to see anything else, and the thing is that Ag is absent later in the n-1 list of EEs. So I'm stuck here for now.


I'll deal with that later or tomorrow.

 

[WchPl]

Goals of the day :

- refine last chart general ID's
- provide sme thoughts on MT/MR
- attempt to make DD about fractal levels/move reversals
- if time/energy enough -> do another annotated and logged chart