Making a living with a $30K account

l2tradr · Aug 31, 2007

Quote from trendmomentum:

The answer is right here, in your own numbers. Do a simple cash flow analysis and you should understand it yourself.

For example.

Say you currently have 30K in your trading account after 5 years of trading.

For the past 5 years, you have had 60% yearly return on your trading funds.

Each year you have taken out 24k to live on and left the rest in the account for trading for the next year.

A simple DCF analysis will show you that you must have had around 39K when you started trading 5 years ago.

Now, what you need to ask yourself is:

1. Could you sustain the 60% return on a yearly basis to infinity including drawdowns?

2. Would your needs remain constant to allow you to live on 24k forever? Note that I assume that 24k covers all your needs including taxes!

3. Note that even if all of the above is true and nothing else changes, you will still run out of cash in just 3 more years!

There you have it. Good luck.

Happy trading.

30K isn't his whole account. I think it's near 100K. he wants to use 30K for futures trading, and the balance, I'd assume, for keep doing what he's doing.

No, you can't maintain 60% returns forever. But, once your account grows, you won't have to. I'd rather make 1% of a billion than 100% of 100K any day.

BJL · Aug 31, 2007

Quote from thenewguy:

No I'm not. I'm saying that the best score on a golf course is all hole in ones. If you want to be a good golfer, you had best aim to get as close to that as possible, because you can be damn sure the competition is.

TNG

huhuh... we'll see after you've made your first million in the markets if you still think this way.

rcanfiel · Aug 31, 2007

Quote from BJL:

huhuh... we'll see after you've made your first million in the markets if you still think this way.

Quite true. Good traders don't aim for the mathematically improbable. They want to know if the instrument is tradeable, if they have a method that outperforms, if they have good trading methods, etc.

Pie in the sky thinking adds little value.

thenewguy · Aug 31, 2007

Quote from BJL:

huhuh... we'll see after you've made your first million in the markets if you still think this way.

You have both proven to me without a doubt that you have not experienced any success in this business. Neither of you can even comprehend the level I am talking about.

Sorry, but after this post you both go on ignore because there is no point talking to either of you. You are both way beyond any type of rational thought.

Thanks, and good luck in the future.

TNG

thenewguy · Aug 31, 2007

Quote from rcanfiel:

Quite true. Good traders don't aim for the mathematically improbable. They want to know if the instrument is tradeable, if they have a method that outperforms, if they have good trading methods, etc.

Pie in the sky thinking adds little value.

I firmly believe that you have absolutely no understanding what "good" traders do, but you won't believe me. You won't even consider my side. How many "good" traders think like that?

I'm going to put you on ignore because I am not getting anything out of this any longer. I thought maybe I could open your mind, but honestly, it's a bit sad to see that Jack was right about you.

Thanks, and I really do wish you great success in the future.

TNG

BJL · Aug 31, 2007

Quote from thenewguy:

You have both proven to me without a doubt that you have not experienced any success in this business. Neither of you can even comprehend the level I am talking about.

Yeah mate. Although i don't have the 20years of experience ... I do have 10 years experience of being a professional trader for a large IB. Last 4 years have been trading my own account.

One day you'll understand. Like I said, only after you've made your first million in the markets.

JimmyJam · Aug 31, 2007

Quote from rcanfiel:

Quite true. Good traders don't aim for the mathematically improbable. They want to know if the instrument is tradeable, if they have a method that outperforms, if they have good trading methods, etc.

Pie in the sky thinking adds little value.

It's very simple folks.

It seems that since rcanfiel has failed in his attempt to make 40 pts ES per month, he doesn't believe anyone else can do it either ...

40 pts or Bust

Talk about sour grapes ...

Jeez man, shutup already.

Jimmy Jam

P.S. I told'em on the thread that 20 pts ES per month would be a gem, let's do the math.

1) 30K = 6 contracts @ 5k performance bond;
2) 20pts ES per month x 1 contract = $1,000; so
3) with 6 contracts you have 6,000 per month
4) keep adding contracts until you get to 10 (hope you don't need me to do the math)
5) 10 contracts x 1,000 = 10,000 per month, 120,000 per year

Now, you tell me, can you make a living with a $30k account?

P.P.S. WARNING all of the above analysis assumes that someone even remotely knows how to trade.

rcanfiel · Aug 31, 2007

Quote from BJL:

Yeah mate. Although i don't have the 20years of experience ... I do have 10 years experience of being a professional trader for a large IB. Last 4 years have been trading my own account.

One day you'll understand. Like I said, only after you've made your first million in the markets.

He is what happens when Theoretician meets Ken Roberts/Jake Bernstein.

I also worked for a large IB. With his trading skill, he would have qualified as a "visitor to our trading floor..."

topmo · Aug 31, 2007

Gosh..........Gee............after reading these posts, I can see there are some major disagreements here. I guess it boils down as to whether IT IS possible for a trader to make 60K a year from 30K?.
Well, of course it's possible. Our good friend here has stated that his "friend" has been successful at that short term? But that he wants to do it full time?
All I know is that in the late 90's and 00, I was pulling in a mighty $300 to $500 a week ( I had a check mailed to me from my account almost weekly) from trading stocks in a margin account with a value of $7000 to $10,000 cash. I had an old slow computer and dial up internet. It was scary and fun and exhilarating.
I lost my trading ability because of GREED and FEAR!! I wanted to trade like some guy who said basically give me $1500 for a 3 day weekend seminar....and I'll show you how to trade like me!! Supposedly he was this REALLY SUPER SUPER trader, anyway, went and took the course, didn't completely understand everything the guy was trying to teach. I do know that he loved to put everyone and every other trader down, he made fun of everyone else and their ideas. Short story, messed up my mind and my trading....started getting confused, trying to trade some other person's way and method. GOT super confused and messed up and started losing all my capital...........and remember I didn't have much to begin with!! I wasn't satisfied with my $300-$500 weekly gain (5%)...........I wanted to make $1000 a week, no, $1000 a day.......just like this other guy was supposedly doing. (no, maybe he was making $10,000 a day?)
It has taken me a LONG time ....long story......to get over that very frustrating part of my life. My spouse and I have money in the bank, in 401K's and IRA's, we have stocks and funds and real estate investments. I don't have to trade now for money, for income, or for living expenses, I trade because I like it, sometimes I love it! I trade for the challenge of becoming better, for being able to return to that "frame of mind" where I know I'm in the zone, when it's all working and flowing, when I'm listening, and reacting to the markets, and it's working. Different styles for different folks.

topmo · Aug 31, 2007

Gosh..........Gee............after reading these posts, I can see there are some major disagreements here. I guess it boils down as to whether IT IS possible for a trader to make 60K a year from 30K?.
Well, of course it's possible. Our good friend here has stated that his "friend" has been successful at that short term? But that he wants to do it full time?
All I know is that in the late 90's and 00, I was pulling in a mighty $300 to $500 a week ( I had a check mailed to me from my account almost weekly) from trading stocks in a margin account with a value of $7000 to $10,000 cash. I had an old slow computer and dial up internet. It was scary and fun and exhilarating.
I lost my trading ability because of GREED and FEAR!! I wanted to trade like some guy who said basically give me $1500 for a 3 day weekend seminar....and I'll show you how to trade like me!! Supposedly he was this REALLY SUPER SUPER trader, anyway, went and took the course, didn't completely understand everything the guy was trying to teach. I do know that he loved to put everyone and every other trader down, he made fun of everyone else and their ideas. Short story, messed up my mind and my trading....started getting confused, trying to trade some other person's way and method. GOT super confused and messed up and started losing all my capital...........and remember I didn't have much to begin with!! I wasn't satisfied with my $300-$500 weekly gain (5%)...........I wanted to make $1000 a week, no, $1000 a day.......just like this other guy was supposedly doing. (no, maybe he was making $10,000 a day?)
It has taken me a LONG time ....long story......to get over that very frustrating part of my life. My spouse and I have money in the bank, in 401K's and IRA's, we have stocks and funds and real estate investments. I don't have to trade now for money, for income, or for living expenses, I trade because I like it, sometimes I love it! I trade for the challenge of becoming better, for being able to return to that "frame of mind" where I know I'm in the zone, when it's all working and flowing, when I'm listening, and reacting to the markets, and it's working. Different styles for different folks.