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Making a living with a $30K account
- Thread starter l2tradr
- Start date
Quote from thenewguy:
The question was completely irrelevent to the topic at hand.
TNG
Is it really?
Would you believe it if someone who never wrote a book told you it's easy to write a bestseller?
Would you believe someone who hasn't played professional sports that it's easy to win a gold olympic medal?
Why would anyone give any thought to statements about how easy trading is from people who haven't made any serious money from trading?
Quote from thenewguy:
To think that I've had the experiences I've had, with so many different groups purely by luck, in such a short time is almost mind numbing. To think that you some how missed them all in all that time and experience literally blows my mind.
I'm speaking from direct observation of being very closely involved with people who perform at this level for many years. All I'm arguing here is that it's possible. I never said it was easy, or that I could do it, although I don't see any reason why not. I will say that it's harder than I thought, and the difficult part has been dealing with the personal issues.
Having experiences with a lot of people, and not having traded and made the $$$ yourself, makes you an amateur, frankly. I will point to my earlier post, where I said, if no one on tracking sites can maintain the above claimes annual 300%, nor those in the major contests, nor CTAs, etc., then the claims of these people you have "observed" means squat.
People always "know someone who did it." The experiences on ET make it obvious that many people claim success. But the known truth here is, that many people either are just papertraders, or have done it for a short time, or with small amounts of money, or outright lie.
I am surprised you continue to assess my own abilities and make sweeping statements when you know nothing about me. I do not consider your observations as particularly sound. Therefore, I have major doubts about all these gurus you encountered in a short time.
Didn't you accuse me of making assumptions at the beginning of this post? I never said Jack. I have no idea if his stuff works, that's why I'm looking into it. That's what rational, motivated people do. The things he talk about are MUCH closer to my actual experiences than the way you talk, however.
He talks but avoids detection, even though he spreads his trading acumen and methods far and wide. I demand proof before I consider something as valid. Again, your observational powers seem suspect. You are too easily swayed. Many of us are doubters of the claims of others, especially when their claims defy statistical or trading realism. It doesn't mean we cannot trade ourselves.
I already know what he's talking about is possible, or close enough that I'm not going to split hairs over the details. The only question remaining is: "Can I do it?". I'm not even talking about his methods, but any of the fantastically profitable methods I've seen in the past. What would knowing that he could trade accomplish for me? Would that garuntee that I could do it?
You got stuck trying to figure out if what he is saying is possible. I (apparantly??) had the great fortune of being shown that without a doubt very early in my career. Going back to my original post, my only job now is to clear out all the crap keeping me from getting there. It's a very tough job (maybe I come with a lot of baggage??)
And in case you think I haven't thought of this, I'm well aware that you may just be fishing for some info about the groups I've worked with. I'll save you some time and say that I'm not going to divulge any information about what they were doing, or what they are doing.
I have no interest in your obervations of these wunderkinds. I see no evidence that supports its value. The fact that you don't need to see strong evidence that something works is not promising. There is a lot more than showing profits on trades. Learn about Risk of Ruin, for starters. It will follow you around, as it does all of us. But you seem to be swayed and dazzled by everything you see.
Anyway, I hope I haven't irked you in anyway with this discussion, and I wish you whatever success you desire in this endeavor.
I wish you success also. But you need to develop a heck of a lot more objectivity and skepticism, or you will blow out many accounts chasing after Pied Pipers.
TNG [/B]
30k is PLENTY enough to make a living , junior..
Quote from BJL:
Is it really?
Would you believe it if someone who never wrote a book told you it's easy to write a bestseller?
Would you believe someone who hasn't played professional sports that it's easy to win a gold olympic medal?
Why would anyone give any thought to statements about how easy trading is from people who haven't made any serious money from trading?
Would you believe that in 19 pages you've managed to completely miss what I'm saying?
In fact, I specifically pointed out that I'm not saying my stance is that it's easy. I find it very difficult. The people that I know have succeeded did so by working very hard and thinking critically. You know what not a single one of them have ever done that I know of? Ask for proof that someone else has done it.
RC has been arguing that it's not possible, that people like I've met don't exist. To me, that's like going up to the groundskeeper at the Master's and telling him that no one will ever shoot below 80 at Augusta.
TNG
Quote from thenewguy:
RC has been arguing that it's not possible, that people like I've met don't exist. To me, that's like going up to the groundskeeper at the Master's and telling him that no one will ever shoot below 80 at Augusta.
Nah, you are alluding to people completing the course with all hole in ones.
No public record of those. But hey... i know someone who knows someone who heard of a guy...
Think about it. It is possible.
vectors101
Guest
all these proprietory firms and brokers just want your $25,000 deposit.. for investing or creating a portfolio $30,000 isn't a whole lot of money, but if you are just daytrading, you don't need $30,000 CASH deposit to 'trade for a living' if you have 50:1 margin man they even require you to have a series 7 in some cases. waste of 100 hours.
Why do the SEC or brokerages (market makers) even have the min. $25,000 minimum to daytrade BECAUSE they want your money or contribution (donation) to the market. retail accounts have 4:1 margin while the brokers or institutions have 50:1. some clients don't even even daytrade.
Why do the SEC or brokerages (market makers) even have the min. $25,000 minimum to daytrade BECAUSE they want your money or contribution (donation) to the market. retail accounts have 4:1 margin while the brokers or institutions have 50:1. some clients don't even even daytrade.
Quote from thenewguy:
The people I have met who have been extremely successful at trading have all followed the same path. This is my observations in a nutshell.
1. Educate yourself on the markets
2. Find something with positive expectancy
3. Leverage that up as quickly as a mathematically defined risk-adverse strategy will allow you to do (massive psych issues here)
4. Stop when you've pulled so much money out of the market that you feel the trouble isn't worth the reward.
People have so much trouble with #3 that it's mind boggling. #4 is the answer to all of RC's questions. You'll notice some steps that are missing, like #5. Put your system on collective2, which is shitty software, and the system probably won't work because your "edge" is taken away by ridiculous restrictions that people who can't trade have created; and #6 promote yourself like a goddamn jackass about how much money you've made. There are only negative results that can come from #5 and #6 to someone who's made it to either #3 or #4.
Everything Jack has written that I've read conforms to my observations. I bet he has a bit more than $2,000.
TNG
lol. What do I care if you call me amateur, stupid or deranged. what motivation would anyone making that kind of money have for making their system public?Quote from rcanfiel:
Having experiences with a lot of people, and not having traded and made the $$$ yourself, makes you an amateur, frankly. I will point to my earlier post, where I said, if no one on tracking sites can maintain the above claimes annual 300%, nor those in the major contests, nor CTAs, etc., then the claims of these people you have "observed" means squat.
The people who are doing this have close friends. They have support personel, they have IT people, they have clearing firms, usually several. Some of them have backers, if they so choose. They have ppl who bring them lunch and snoop too much. They have cleaners, the planes they rent have pilots, the offices they rent have landlords, they have accountants, they have IRS auditors, they have auditors from whatever the exchanges they are members of.... the list goes on and on. These are not people that are trying to show anyone that what they are doing is extrodinary (aka "guru") they are people who are trying to hide it from the world, and it's not all that hard to find out, if you look in the right spots. ALL those people either know what is possible, or have a very good idea. This is not meeting someone online and believing that they make trillions.People always "know someone who did it." The experiences on ET make it obvious that many people claim success. But the known truth here is, that many people either are just papertraders, or have done it for a short time, or with small amounts of money, or outright lie.
lol... the assumption I made is that you've never met anyone pulling down more than %300 a year. If you had, why would you think they don't exist??I am surprised you continue to assess my own abilities and make sweeping statements when you know nothing about me. I do not consider your observations as particularly sound. Therefore, I have major doubts about all these gurus you encountered in a short time.
Why do you assume I have "no strong evidence"? Why do YOU make sweeping claims about me and then comment on me making them about YOU? I'll give you a hint, I have worked more than one of those roles outlined above, and it put me in a position where I can say, without a doubt, that what is possible long term is totally beyond your comprehension.He talks but avoids detection, even though he spreads his trading acumen and methods far and wide. I demand proof before I consider something as valid. Again, your observational powers seem suspect. You are too easily swayed. Many of us are doubters of the claims of others, especially when their claims defy statistical or trading realism. It doesn't mean we cannot trade ourselves
I have no interest in your obervations of these wunderkinds. I see no evidence that supports its value. The fact that you don't need to see strong evidence that something works is not promising. There is a lot more than showing profits on trades. Learn about Risk of Ruin, for starters. It will follow you around, as it does all of us. But you seem to be swayed and dazzled by everything you see.
I wish you success also. But you need to develop a heck of a lot more objectivity and skepticism, or you will blow out many accounts chasing after Pied Pipers.
Thank you for your kind words. However, as I previously alluded to, I have no interest in taking advice about trading from someone who has almost the completely opposite view point of the extremely successful people I've met personally, and known for years.
TNG
Quote from BJL:
Nah, you are alluding to people completing the course with all hole in ones.
No public record of those. But hey... i know someone who knows someone who heard of a guy...
Think about it. It is possible.
No I'm not. I'm saying that the best score on a golf course is all hole in ones. If you want to be a good golfer, you had best aim to get as close to that as possible, because you can be damn sure the competition is.
TNG