Major News - Redi & Arca

I do go directly to the MM's (always have since we have never used SOES), and I do appreciate some assistance from you guys. I have no problems admitting that I could use some good info! Our "people" our doing the legal research needed, but I prefer to hear from those that trade every day.

Trading styles vary, access varies, results vary, but we all need to stay current with the changes that affect our bottom line.
 
Originally posted by Turok
He said he "hit three different MMs". Now, as we know we can't target specific MMs with SuperSoes, so perhaps in his lack of familiarity with Nas trading he used the Selectnet system which you *can* still hit MMs (and SN is now discretionary exectution wise).

JB
More...

Give Don some credit...he's been around the block. Maybe there was only one MM at the inside when he sent his SS order...in which case he "targeted" them.
 
>Give Don some credit...he's been around the block.
>Maybe there was only one MM at the inside when
>he sent his SS order...in which case he "targeted"
>them.

I'm sure Don deserved credits in many areas, but in this case he clearly doesn't deserve them as they relate to a SuperSoes discussion -- just as I wouldn't deserve them from a listed discussion.

From Don's most recent explanation, it would appear that I was correct and that this morning he was hitting them directly through the now discretionary SN system rather than through a generic SS order which has mandatory execution.

Th Naz is clearly a "block" he hasn't been walking lately and while there is no shame it that, everyone (including those who have been in this business since God and guide as many traders as someone like Don) should stay up to date and understand the systems and rules before being as critical of the Naz as I have heard the Bright bunch be.

JB
 
If he preferenced a MM via SS then he would have had to have oversized the order by at least 100 shares and seems like this would have become obvious and related in the posts. THough perhaps he was "testing" with 1000 share lots and this was not an issue.:)

Turok the Naz will time the Soes order out in 30 seconds if a MM does not come to the inside.....a virtual lifetime no doubt.

On a related note, if the SOES order is priced at the current inside price and there is no MM there, it never goes live. However, if the order is at the market or at a marketable limit price outside the inside (above offer to buy and below bid to sell) and there is no MM currently at the inside, Naz will hold the order live for 90 seconds waiting for a MM to join.

I always get the 30 second time out in the first example mixed up with the 90 sec time out in the latter....why they did not just use one time out interval is beyond me.

Dustin-Don specifically said he targed 3 MM's hence mine and Turoks response. If he meant that this was on three separate orders at separate times then perhaps you are right.
 
>I always get the 30 second time out in the first
>example mixed up with the 90 sec time out in
>the latter....why they did not just use one time
>out interval is beyond me.

That's funny -- rules can be weird. I'll never give the system a chance to do either to me. It only takes me a split second to hit the ECN hotkey if one is there.

Thanks for your contributions.

JB
 
(I am going to post this to 2 different sections, since I am looking for suggestions below)

OK, as I mentioned above, I am willing to admit when I need to get "up to speed" on an aspect of the market, and I thank those of you who offer me some respect for longevity if nothing else. To Turok, I value your input and I value the others who brought to light my reference to attempts at hitting MM's, the time-outs, and the faded bids.

To DatTrader, I think that your review shows a good understanding of the platforms, and I thank you for your clarifications.

I am in a somewhat awkward position at times...let me explain: I may do things much differently if I was simply trading for myself, as an individual via a broker or even as a B/D. I do have to maintain a stature of full compliance with all the complex issues that come about from a regulatory standpoint, and therefore have to "tread softly" at times when it comes to market access issues (I would have a hard time explaining to regulators that "gee, I didn't know I couldn't preference a certain MM, or I didn't know I couldn't hit downticks," or make some excuse for mistakes in trading practices. (I hope that makes some sense, I am a bit tired...a long week of trading, training, and "biz development" with the "big whigs")....

I am setting up two seperate trading platforms next week (my brother is going away for 2 weeks), so I can actively trade a couple of new strategies and at the same time "get up to speed" (real time) with all the latest bells and whistles (hot keys, automated trailing envelopes, and all the cool stuff we have been working on). Since I have had to "authorize myself" for all the market access capacities (futures, SS, "montage direct" (which I think is like our old Level 3 specific routing)...and would appreciate any suggestions you all may have, or access that you may want tested or compared. Some of the results will end up in the magazine, and I will hope to be as close to 100% as possible in a couple of weeks.

Right now I have to analyze all my "year enders" to see how the tax strategies are coming. Have a good weekend!!
 
(I am going to post this to 2 different sections, since I am looking for suggestions below)

OK, as I mentioned above, I am willing to admit when I need to get "up to speed" on an aspect of the market, and I thank those of you who offer me some respect for longevity if nothing else. To Turok, I value your input and I value the others who brought to light my reference to attempts at hitting MM's, the time-outs, and the faded bids.

To DatTrader, I think that your review shows a good understanding of the platforms, and I thank you for your clarifications.

I am in a somewhat awkward position at times...let me explain: I may do things much differently if I was simply trading for myself, as an individual via a broker or even as a B/D. I do have to maintain a stature of full compliance with all the complex issues that come about from a regulatory standpoint, and therefore have to "tread softly" at times when it comes to market access issues (I would have a hard time explaining to regulators that "gee, I didn't know I couldn't preference a certain MM, or I didn't know I couldn't hit downticks," or make some excuse for mistakes in trading practices. (I hope that makes some sense, I am a bit tired...a long week of trading, training, and "biz development" with the "big whigs")....

I am setting up two seperate trading platforms next week (my brother is going away for 2 weeks), so I can actively trade a couple of new strategies and at the same time "get up to speed" (real time) with all the latest bells and whistles (hot keys, automated trailing envelopes, and all the cool stuff we have been working on). Since I have had to "authorize myself" for all the market access capacities (futures, SS, "montage direct" (which I think is like our old Level 3 specific routing)...and would appreciate any suggestions you all may have, or access that you may want tested or compared. Some of the results will end up in the magazine, and I will hope to be as close to 100% as possible in a couple of weeks.

Right now I have to analyze all my "year enders" to see how the tax strategies are coming. Have a good weekend!!
 
Date: October 28, 2000
Location: Dallas, Texas
Event: Dinner Party - panel of advisors
Action: John Murphy is being put on the spot by the Bright brothers.

It wasn't called for, but you had a point to the effect that you exposed John for not being a trader himself. Yet, he is a respectful analyst/money manager, but definitely not a trader.

Don, I know how much you guys hate when someone who do not "do it" day in and day out talks about "how to do it." I feel the exact same way. However, your post in regards to Nasdaq routing clearly shows that you do not have the slightest clue about the subject. Now since you are in the industry, I think that you MUST learn how it works.

Therefore, I want to point you to what I feel is one of the best sources to Nasdaq order routing.

Please go to www.tradecourse.com and study the materials there. I have no affiliation with that site although I do know the owner, and he is the nicest guy. In short, it won't make a difference to my pocket if you do it or not.

Furthermore, If I were you, I would make it a mandatory program for all your traders to take that course. It should improve their performance, and maybe you will find out that trading Nasdaq stocks could be a reality for some folks, and maybe even a profitable one.

I think it is nice that you participate on this board, I know that many including myself appreciate posts from veteran traders. I tried to keep this post in good taste and if it came across too offensive please accept my apology.

Trade Smart!
 
You are absolutely right about that night in Texas. And if you recall, I immediately went up to John and apologized for being out of line in my questions to him (I surely should not have picked that open forum to discuss his own trading). :( You recall that this happened after a whole day of listening to a whole lot of nonsense from so many people (and when combined with nearly zero attendance from the public), which sometimes takes it toll on my psyche'.

If you noticed a couple of follow up posts about the routing questions, I have been doing some quick catching up, only to find that the information available (all 15 pages so far) is somewhat out of date due to recent changes. I have asked a couple of our SLK/GS people to clarify a couple of significant points of contention for me. I am told that the random additions of ECN's, "routing software", and exchange rules/reg's over the last couple of years have caused major problems with the regulators. This, in turn, has pushed the bigger players to re-write software and policies.

I sincerely appreciate your advice and suggestions. I have been told that come February, major changes are happening all over again (super montage, and exchange status for arca/redi), so it seems to me that we must all be vigilant in our task to stay completely current.

I am heartened that most of the subtle differences seem to have little effect on overall trading strategies. And, it does seem that I have been pretty close on most of these topics with the exception of SuperSoes (which I readily admit that I have not used to date).

Thanks for the help, and if you see John again, please shake his hand for me!
 
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