Madoff Clawback Nightmare on Wall St,

Quote from tradersboredom:

NO, social security is a gov't welfare program created after the great depression.
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Oh yeah? That's how THEY explain it to us. It is NOT supposed to be just a welfare program. The funds are supposed to be separate from other government money...social security payments are not supposed to be just a handout from the government. I get a statement which states how much I've contributed to my SS "account" and what I should expect as far as social security payments after I retire.

However, SS is solely based on money from current contributors ("investors") paying returns to those who contributed in the past, so they can collect their social security checks. There is no real investment return on money contributed to the social security program.

That is exactly the definition of a Ponzi scheme. The only difference is that the SS Ponzi scheme was made legal by the government.
 
Quote from Cutten:

This is no different to going to a shopkeeper and telling him that 5 years ago someone bought goods with stolen bills, so he has to pay it back.

The US legal system is batshit crazy.
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No it comes from english common law. You can't keep anything you don't own.

It would be the same thing as if you bought a stolen car. You would have to give the car back and your're out the money.

Those people were paid not with profits but with other peoples money.
 
if that happens get ready for the second american civil war, which would be awesome, no more crazy american wars with other countries. just themselves :D



Quote from IanMacQuaide:

So what happens if you don't give back this "Clawback" money? Or, you spent it all?
I've never heard or read of a man in a Federal Penitentiary for having withdrawn, paid taxes on, and kept investment profits in an investment scheme that, years later,went bad w/out his complicity or knowledge.
Have you?
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Quote from jficquette:

No it comes from english common law. You can't keep anything you don't own.

It would be the same thing as if you bought a stolen car. You would have to give the car back and your're out the money.

Those people were paid not with profits but with other peoples money.
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Not true. The prevailing legal standard is that a "good faith purchaser for value" gets to keep what he bought, even if it was stolen property. (to be in good faith you must not have known or should have known of the fraud).

The NY "clawback" provision seems to be an exception to this.
 
Social Security Program is well known to be pay as you go.

All the money people pay is paid out.

There is no investment fund.

The gov't can just cancel the social security program cancel welfare programs cancel unemployment programs.

everybody knows that social security is structured like "WELFARE". it's full disclosure.
Gov't doesn't need to pay any social security. social security is communism


Quote from sandygray66:

Oh yeah? That's how THEY explain it to us. It is NOT supposed to be just a welfare program. The funds are supposed to be separate from other government money...social security payments are not supposed to be just a handout from the government. I get a statement which states how much I've contributed to my SS "account" and what I should expect as far as social security payments after I retire.

However, SS is solely based on money from current contributors ("investors") paying returns to those who contributed in the past, so they can collect their social security checks. There is no real investment return on money contributed to the social security program.

That is exactly the definition of a Ponzi scheme. The only difference is that the SS Ponzi scheme was made legal by the government.
More...
 
There were no clawbacks for Enron, and will not be any for the Satyam fraud. Anyone who shorted these stocks or sold when then were high priced keep all of their profits.

Why are they even being considered for the Madoff scandal?

Were there any clawbacks 90 years ago after the Ponzi scandal?
 
Gasbag Charlie had an interesting bit on CNBC...Carpenters Union Pension Fund invested with Madoff.
Now if "Clawback" is truly an enforceable law/regulation, then the Carpenters Unions' Pension fund has to give back money, and some retirees all of a sudden got no income.
The depth of this is astounding.
 
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