Macintosh's are NOT inherently secure

[jprad]

Quote from dcvtss:

I figured someone would bring up the third party stuff being in there, point is 3rd party is a common attack vector and Apache and BIND (which I would argue are associated much more with *nix, and by extension OS X than with Windows) in particular have had a horrible record of security flaws over the years which thanks to the design of unix only allowing root to bind to the lower ports lead to complete compromise of the system.

There is nothing inherent to the design of any UNIX-like kernel that leads to compromise just because a service is using a low numbered port.

And BIND has nowhere's near the problems that Sendmail had. Not only does it have the dubious distinction of being victimized by the first Internet worm, it's had a shitload number of times afterward.

Granted there are plenty of well known mitigation techniques but I would hazard to guess that they are well over the heads of the average Apple store shopper or the supposed "geniuses" that work there.

Excuse me, but BIND is a DNS server. Why on earth would a desktop OS user need to be running a network service in the first place?

*nix can be secure but as with everything else with unix it assumes you know what the hell you are doing and are a configuration expert which is a very big assumption, again this is tempered by some of the newer linux package management developments.

Actually, it's the commercial vendors that are the ones that dragged their feet the most. Securing a Solaris, HP-UX or AIX box is no small feat.

Some of the Linux distributions could do a better job, but FreeBSD and OSX to a lesser extent, have been pretty much secure by default for years now.

You might want to point NMap at one and see what I'm talking about...

Of course, there's always the paranoid branch with SELinux variants and the king, OpenBSD, where everything is off by default on install.

 

[Cutten]

Quote from dcvtss:

I'm trying to dispel the myth out there that many misguided computer users have that if they switch to a Macintosh suddenly their security worries are over.

Which myth is this? I don't know anyone who thinks they can forget about computer & internet security.

Anything which accesses the internet is fundamentally insecure.

 

[saxon22]

Since we are talking about apples, let me throw in a couple of my oranges into the mix. This comes from a very funny site called stuff white people like or something similar. here is a quote on Apple product:

"Plain and simple, white people don’t just like Apple, they love and need Apple to operate.

On the surface, you would ask yourself, how is that white people love a multi-billion dollar company with manufacturing plants in China, mass production, and that contributes to global pollution through the manufacture of consumer electronic devices?

Simple answer: Apple products tell the world you are creative and unique. They are an exclusive product line only used by every white college student, designer, writer, English teacher, and hipster on the planet.

You see, a long time ago Apple’s were super popular among layout artists and graphic designers. Then Apple released Final Cut Pro and became the standard for film editors. As a result, lots of creative industries used Apple computers instead of PCs. Eventually, people started making the connection, and all of a sudden all white people need to have a Mac.

When you ask white people about Mac’s they will say “oh, it’s so much better than Windows,” “it’s just easier to use,” “they are so cutting edge,” and so forth. What’s amazing is that white people NEED to meet people who use Windows to justify themselves spending an extra $500 for a pretty looking machine."

 

[saxon22]

It is also important that white people are reminded of their creativity, and remember you need a Mac to creatively check email, creatively check websites, and creatively watch DVDs on planes.

White people also need iPods, iPhones, Apple TV, AirPort Express stations, and anything else that Apple will produce. Because you need to express your uniqueness by purchasing everything that a publicly traded company produces.

Apple products also come with stickers. Some people put them on their computer, some people put them on windows, but to take it to the pinnacle of whiteness, you need to put the Apple sticker in the rear window of your Prius, Jetta, BMW, Subaru 4WD Station Wagon or Audi. You then need to drive to a local coffee shop (Starbucks will do in a pinch) and set up your apple for the world to see. Thankfully, the Apple logo on the back will light up! So even in a dark place, people can see how unique and creative you (and the five other people doing the exact same thing) truly are!

Knowledge of Apple products can be useful in a number of social situations. If you see a white person with a Mac, an easy way to approach them is to say “Is that a Powerbook? What OS do you have?” They will happily start talking to you, after the requisite five minutes, you can invite them to an 80s night.



Being white myself and having friends who are "apple evangelistas" this is so true!!!!!!!!


here is the site:

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/30/39-apple-products/

 

[Cutten]

Quote from saxon22:

Since we are talking about apples, let me throw in a couple of my oranges into the mix. This comes from a very funny site called stuff white people like or something similar. here is a quote on Apple product:

"Plain and simple, white people don’t just like Apple, they love and need Apple to operate.

On the surface, you would ask yourself, how is that white people love a multi-billion dollar company with manufacturing plants in China, mass production, and that contributes to global pollution through the manufacture of consumer electronic devices?

Simple answer: Apple products tell the world you are creative and unique. They are an exclusive product line only used by every white college student, designer, writer, English teacher, and hipster on the planet.

You see, a long time ago Apple’s were super popular among layout artists and graphic designers. Then Apple released Final Cut Pro and became the standard for film editors. As a result, lots of creative industries used Apple computers instead of PCs. Eventually, people started making the connection, and all of a sudden all white people need to have a Mac.

When you ask white people about Mac’s they will say “oh, it’s so much better than Windows,” “it’s just easier to use,” “they are so cutting edge,” and so forth. What’s amazing is that white people NEED to meet people who use Windows to justify themselves spending an extra $500 for a pretty looking machine."

I personally tried out an Apple about 18 months ago, the main reason was just being sick of the unreliability, driver issues, and generally awkward fiddly nature of PCs running windows. I have owned and run literally dozens of PCs over the previous decade for my trading and normal usage, using many of the name brands, so - as a user, not a technophile - I am fairly familiar with them in both a casual and high performance mission-critical environment. I want devices to run with minimal effort and attention, so Linux wasn't an option. Anyway, I tried out a Mac and found that the amount of crashes, software problems, bugs, driver conflicts, anti-virus bullshit, and other inane wastes of time fell by a huge amount. In addition, I have another nice bonus - actual customer support. Generally it works and tells me what to do to achieve what I want with the computer, its peripherals, and software. Have you ever tried to get this with a PC? Maybe I was just unlucky but I practically had to visit my doctor for beta blockers every time I finished a customer support call with Microsoft or a PC manufacturer.

For me, the moronic sheep making up the Apple true religion brigade are a regrettable downside to owning Macs. I hate the 60s/70s counterculture, and couldn't care less about the story of the two Steves. But I don't care, any more than I care how fashionable my broker is. The only things I care about are reliability, ease of use, and performance. There is nothing creative about computers, espeiclaly when used for trading - they are just boring lumps of plastic and electronics, built to do a job. I would prefer it if they actually do that job, instead of failing repeatedly and dismally, driving you half mad in the process. Oh and as for the "white" thing, the person who used a Mac herself and got me to try one was a black woman, so shove that up your racist poophole.

There are numerous legitimate reasons to prefer Macs to PCs/Windows. Anyone who quotes the kind of tripe you just came out with just reveals themselves as a small-minded retard who has never actually done a back to back comparison between the two systems, as I did for several months with real-time trading and general work, seeing which system performed better. I still own 2 PCs as backup machines and in case of PC-only software (retards like Trading Technologies who are such lazy cunts they refuse to enter the 21st century by diversifying OS). Saying what you did gives the impression you have no clue as to the importance of issues such as ease of use, reliability, security, backup etc. Since my bottom line is directly affected by reliability, performance, security and ease of use, I would wager I have more money at stake on this issue than most people on this board, let alone wider society.

 

[sculptor66]

Quote from saxon22:


When you ask white people about Mac’s they will say “oh, it’s so much better than Windows,” “it’s just easier to use,” “they are so cutting edge,” and so forth. What’s amazing is that white people NEED to meet people who use Windows to justify themselves spending an extra $500 for a pretty looking machine."

I'm a long time windows user, and I have a Mac also. The difference may be small, but it is significant: Almost every detail about a Mac is more refined, more polished, which makes it actually a joy to use a Mac. Something I never experienced with a windows machine.

It's a bit like the difference between a Porsche 911 and some generic Japanese sports car: There are people who will constantly tell you that the japanese product is almost as good or even better, while selling at a lower price.

These are people who get their knowledge solely from reading the tech specs and reviews in magazines. They have never driven the real thing.

 

[jprad]

Quote from dcvtss:

Most internet traffic is not "routed" through linux boxes either, maybe what you meant is most servers are linux?

Actually, several commercial and open source firewalls are based on Linux or BSD. Same goes for several of the commercial cable and/or wireless routers.

It's a good bet that at some point along the way your traffic is going through something that's at least partly based on either of those systems.

 

[saxon22]

Quote from Cutten:

" I personally tried out an Apple about 18 months ago, the main reason was just being sick of the unreliability, driver issues, and generally awkward fiddly nature of PCs running windows. I have owned and run literally dozens of PCs over the previous decade for my trading and normal usage, using many of the name brands, so - as a user, not a technophile - I am fairly familiar with them in both a casual and high performance mission-critical environment. I want devices to run with minimal effort and attention, so Linux wasn't an option. Anyway, I tried out a Mac and found that the amount of crashes, software problems, bugs, driver conflicts, anti-virus bullshit, and other inane wastes of time fell by a huge amount. In addition, I have another nice bonus - actual customer support. Generally it works and tells me what to do to achieve what I want with the computer, its peripherals, and software. Have you ever tried to get this with a PC? Maybe I was just unlucky but I practically had to visit my doctor for beta blockers every time I finished a customer support call with Microsoft or a PC manufacturer. "

I am glad Apple is working out for you. I am happy with my Win based PC. Had the same machine dedicated to trading for past 4 years and have yet to have any problems with it. No driver conflicts, anti-virus dilemmas, and never had to call customer support. paid $900 for the thing. It is a 17" laptop and so far nothing had to be replaced or fixed. Aside from costing about $1500 less then a 17 inch apple laptop, we are both using it for the same thing. I can tell from your long post how passionate you are about macs and that is OK. We all need passions and goals to make our lives meaningful.

 

[saxon22]

Quote # 2 from Cutten:

" For me, the moronic sheep making up the Apple true religion brigade are a regrettable downside to owning Macs. I hate the 60s/70s counterculture, and couldn't care less about the story of the two Steves. But I don't care, any more than I care how fashionable my broker is. The only things I care about are reliability, ease of use, and performance. There is nothing creative about computers, espeiclaly when used for trading - they are just boring lumps of plastic and electronics, built to do a job. I would prefer it if they actually do that job, instead of failing repeatedly and dismally, driving you half mad in the process. Oh and as for the "white" thing, the person who used a Mac herself and got me to try one was a black woman, so shove that up your racist poophole. "




I think it is not the computers but you who have a problem. You HATE the 60's and the 70's you need beta blockers and your machines fail all the time. You need to increase the Peace brother. Trading is only a profession and computers are not worthy of hypertension. Make Love not war baby!

As for being introduced to Macs by a black person here is another quote from the same site:


"Since we are on the verge of electing a black president, it seems important to explain why white people want black friends. Every white person wants a black friend like Barack: good-looking, well-spoken, and non-violent. Obviously, whites want black friends so as not to appear racist (see earlier Obama post). However, if we dig deeper what we notice about white people is not if they have black friends but in fact, how many black friends they have. White people like numbers. They like to count things like stars in the sky and the death toll at Mt. Everest and the number of times they’ve seen Tori Amos and/or Phish in concert. Counting the number of black friends is then clearly a divine imperative. The number of black friends white people possess also illustrates their comfort with black culture. Here’s a handy guide to the number system:

1—The white novice. This black friend is the gateway to helping white people understand gang signs and Vietnamese beauty supply stores. This black friend is probably the only black friend for many white people and when they all hang out (because white people hang out) they bring their “mutual” black friend with them.

2—The white black club-goer. Two black friends serve as bodyguards when white people go to black clubs to see how exactly one “pops, drops and locks” it.

3 -4—The white BET-er. See Justin Timberlake/ Robin Thicke/ Jon B for more information. For old school reference, see Michael McDonald.

5 and up—Impossible."


Relax man!


BTW. What is your count?

 

[saxon22]

Quote from sculptor66:

I'm a long time windows user, and I have a Mac also. The difference may be small, but it is significant: Almost every detail about a Mac is more refined, more polished, which makes it actually a joy to use a Mac. Something I never experienced with a windows machine.

It's a bit like the difference between a Porsche 911 and some generic Japanese sports car: There are people who will constantly tell you that the japanese product is almost as good or even better, while selling at a lower price.

These are people who get their knowledge solely from reading the tech specs and reviews in magazines. They have never driven the real thing.

I guess some people need Macs,expensive German cars and $5 coffees to feel that their lives are somehow more fulfilled.