I am glad he does not give trials. actually id be very very upset as a paying customer if he gave out trials. not only does that create a huge breach in security cause now your software is out to anyone who wants to take a whack at it. but it hurts customer service. i have his cell number and probably call him every other day to chat about new things.. or how to improve my systems. he is so dedicated to his program.. i have never seen anyone more dedicated to their work (other than me)
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Machine designed strategies. Do they work?
- Thread starter v75z52
- Start date
if it trades and has a decent spread ill trade it. you can only trade so many lots of ES
Quote from kauflaune:
Yeah I remember that's a TS feature, the composite symbol BO.C which is pit and electronic copied together. With an average trade of around $60, your system seems tradable, considering the small BO tick size of $6. Not bad, I never thought of trading the more exotic markets.
Quote from milewski05:
IMO i would never trade a system that's already 30% OOS but just to prove a point here. ill do 60% OOS 40% IS.
Question: do you provide TSL with the combined IS+OOS to start with? Or you provide first the IS and when the system is ready you use the OOS just to validate it?
I am asking you because based on experience of 15 years with trading system development, it appears there is possibility of data-snooping with your results. But that cannot be confirmed unless you either provide the code of the system or the company provides a demo.
Soybean oil? My grandfather traded that. What about something like TF or TY?
Moderators, is there a chance to close this ridiculous thread? A program that costs many thousands of dollars without ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER THAT IT ADDS VALUE? A program that contains code that can be easily replicated in Matlab or R??? And then people with 1 or 2 posts (another one with 12) proclaiming how they developed working strategies with this software? I was trading professionally for hedge funds and sell-side firms for over 14 years and now run my own high frequency trading operations and having worked with highly quantitative statistical and mathematical models the only thing I can say that this sounds, smells, and looks like the biggest bollocks I have EVER SEEN on this website...
Are some people just too plain stupid to see this? Is the average IQ of ETlers actually lower than that of the average populous? I start to believe so!!!
Are some people just too plain stupid to see this? Is the average IQ of ETlers actually lower than that of the average populous? I start to believe so!!!
Quote from v75z52:
I have looked at Trading System lab but they do not provide a demo. Some serious hype on the website but this is what a user of this program recently said:
"TSL doesn't work. Tried it personally. Was not able to develop a single working strategy."
A user of Adaptrade claims that "Strategies quickly fade"
Another user of Adaptrade claims that "strategy does not perform (equity curve goes down) with new data beyond the out of sample period."
Now it may be the case that these individuals failed to use the programs properly. What do you think?
You can free mt4 software and plenty of coders ,why another load of bollocks ?
I agree the performance curves coming from TSL lack information to be convincing, but not so for the PAL work presented by Tim. How much work and knowledge is necessary to work on Matlab or R to get the same work done than in the financial softwares discussed earlier ?
Also any idea if a newly graduated in master (or even bachelor ?!?) in computer science but no financial backround could help either coding matlab or doing numerous tests through PAL ? I'm more and more inclined in hiring one first as a trainee to do these tasks, but I'm about as clueless as it comes with computer programming (although willing to study)
Also any idea if a newly graduated in master (or even bachelor ?!?) in computer science but no financial backround could help either coding matlab or doing numerous tests through PAL ? I'm more and more inclined in hiring one first as a trainee to do these tasks, but I'm about as clueless as it comes with computer programming (although willing to study)
Quote from Occam:
I think that no economically rational agent would ever sell purely automated trading software that really works. So anything that's sold as such is all but guaranteed to fail, unless you're adding some serious value yourself (e.g., by extending the code or doing something discretionary in addition to the signal given by the software).
As someone who has something which could be automated (don't have the skills to do so, but know that it could be done) and works, I agree.
At best, I would possibly license it to someone with some kind of gain-sharing deal, so that as they profited, I would also profit or I would sell an interest in it up-front to monetize the expected future gains. Selling it outright is out of the question, unless the selling price would be greater than any potential future gains.
Quote from logic_man:
As someone who has something which could be automated (don't have the skills to do so, but know that it could be done) and works, I agree.
At best, I would possibly license it to someone with some kind of gain-sharing deal, so that as they profited, I would also profit or I would sell an interest in it up-front to monetize the expected future gains. Selling it outright is out of the question, unless the selling price would be greater than any potential future gains.
On 1 % margin the rampers of this software don't need buyers of software , if this software was any good.
If this software was any good ,the software developers would put their muthers on the hook.
Quote from oilfxpro:
On 1 % margin the rampers of this software don't need buyers of software , if this software was any good.
If this software was any good ,the software developers would put their muthers on the hook.
Yes and no. Let's say that the software enables me to make 100 trades per year and, given my current available capital (including any leverage I can access) my profit per trade is $1000. That's $100K/year. What if I can sell an interest in the software or license for $500K up front or a 50% interest in any profits the buyer makes, and that buyer trades at a size which would net me $500K in gain-sharing in a year? Sometimes, that trade-off will make sense and sometimes it won't. As long as I can share the market with someone with more capital (a LOT more capital), it can make sense. Obviously, this is a different sort of transaction than selling software to retail traders, which I agree is basically a rip-off.
Leverage availability vs. up-front monetization would be the determining factor. Not every Tom, Dick and Harry can access huge amounts of leverage, but an institution or deep-pocketed trading outfit can. Sometimes, even if you want to put your mother on the hook, the people with capital might not let you, unless you cut them in on the action. Try going to a bank and getting a business loan to start up your own trading firm. While I haven't tried it, I'm pretty sure they will laugh you out of the building. The people who are going to give you enough money to make it worth your while to sell are going to be people who can pull forward your expected earnings on the software's future profits.
Quote from logic_man:
Yes and no. Let's say that the software enables me to make 100 trades per year and, given my current available capital (including any leverage I can access) my profit per trade is $1000. That's $100K/year. What if I can sell an interest in the software or license for $500K up front or a 50% interest in any profits the buyer makes, and that buyer trades at a size which would net me $500K in gain-sharing in a year? Sometimes, that trade-off will make sense and sometimes it won't. As long as I can share the market with someone with more capital (a LOT more capital), it can make sense. Obviously, this is a different sort of transaction than selling software to retail traders, which I agree is basically a rip-off.
Leverage availability vs. up-front monetization would be the determining factor. Not every Tom, Dick and Harry can access huge amounts of leverage, but an institution or deep-pocketed trading outfit can. Sometimes, even if you want to put your mother on the hook, the people with capital might not let you, unless you cut them in on the action. Try going to a bank and getting a business loan to start up your own trading firm. While I haven't tried it, I'm pretty sure they will laugh you out of the building. The people who are going to give you enough money to make it worth your while to sell are going to be people who can pull forward your expected earnings on the software's future profits.
that still doesn't make any sense unless your purely talking stocks....$100,000 of futures, forex leverage is a shitload of leverage
...and with stocks you'll likely run into liquidity issues with a good working system if you now have to compete with a much larger player for fills......
bottom line..be very careful of anyone selling a "profitable" system