m22au's list of companies to short if shorting wasn't deemed evil

RBS short is working nicely, but I'm holding for much lower levels (3 pence or lower).

I'm also short LLOY (LSE) which is LYG (NYSE).

From memory the UK govt has 43% ownership, so it's possible that this could be another RBS type situation, where shareholders flee the stock because they fear nationalisation.
 
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a746r_1q9OOY&refer=home

Roubini Predicts U.S. Losses May Reach $3.6 Trillion (Update1)

By Henry Meyer and Ayesha Daya

Jan. 20 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. financial losses from the credit crisis may reach $3.6 trillion, suggesting the banking system is “effectively insolvent,” said New York University Professor Nouriel Roubini, who predicted last year’s economic crisis.

“I’ve found that credit losses could peak at a level of 3.6 trillion for U.S. institutions, half of them by banks and broker dealers,” Roubini said at a conference in Dubai today. “If that’s true, it means the U.S. banking system is effectively insolvent because it starts with a capital of $1.4 trillion. This is a systemic banking crisis.”

Losses and writedowns at financial companies worldwide have risen to more than $1 trillion since the U.S. subprime mortgage market collapsed in 2007, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

Bank of America Corp., the largest U.S. bank by assets, posted a quarterly loss of $1.79 billion last week, its first since 1991, and received $138 billion in emergency government funds. Citigroup Inc. posted an $8.29 billion fourth-quarter loss, completing its worst year, and plans to split in two under Chief Executive Officer Vikram Pandit’s plan to rebuild a capital base eroded by the credit crisis.

‘Bankrupt’ System

“The problems of Citi, Bank of America and others suggest the system is bankrupt,” Roubini said. “In Europe, it’s the same thing.”

Stocks in Europe, Canada and Brazil dropped yesterday on speculation government efforts to shore up the financial industry will fail to stem the deepening global recession. The U.K.’s Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc said it expects to post a loss of as much as 28 billion pounds ($41 billion) for 2008 and the government got ready to raise its stake in the lender.

Oil prices will trade between $30 and $40 a barrel all year, Roubini predicted.

“I see commodities falling overall another 15-20 percent,” Roubini said. “This outlook for commodity prices is beneficial for oil importers, it’s going to imply that economic recovery might occur faster, but from the point of view of oil exporters, this will be very negative.”

Oil has tumbled 77 percent from its July high of $147.27 as the global economy sinks into recession, straining the budgets of crude exporters. Saudi Arabia, Oman and Dubai, the second-largest sheikdom in the United Arab Emirates, have said they will post budget deficits this year. HSBC Holdings Plc said this week it is forecasting an average oil price of $45 a barrel for this year.

Crude oil for February delivery traded as low as $33.18 a barrel, down 9 percent from last week’s close, in after-hours trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange at 4:23 p.m. Singapore time.

Last Updated: January 20, 2009 04:36 EST

Positions in RBS, LLOY, C and BAC
 
In addition to positions in RBS, LLOY, BAC and C, I am watching the two big remaining Irish banks:

NYSE symbols AIB and IRE
LSE symbols ALBK and BIR

However these two banks are only worth 400 to 550 million EUR each, or about 520 to 715 million USD each.
 
Quote from m22au:

Thanks Traderyin .... are you referring to RBS?

The whole damn list came down since September. If you short every one of them, you would've sitting in Bahamas now.
 
I've been short some of them at various times and with various position sizes.

However apart from special situations like FRE / FNM, it's tough to hit home runs because:

(1) Governments are spending a lot of money to address the problems with the banking sector, and governments have much greater resources than me

(2) shorting bans in various countries at various times

(3a) the most I can make on a short trade (without using puts) is 100%

(3b) Puts can be expensive at times, particularly given #1 and #2 above



Quote from traderyin:

The whole damn list came down since September. If you short every one of them, you would've sitting in Bahamas now.
 
Updated list of shorting ideas:

21 January 2009

Main ideas:

GM, GM and GM

RBS, LLOY (LSE) / LYG (NYSE)

other autos and auto related, especially F

Other UK / Irish banks:
BARC (LSE) / BCS (NYSE)
NYSE symbols AIB and IRE
LSE symbols ALBK and BIR

have been bailed out but still could have some downside:
FRE, FNM, AIG, C, BAC

Other US Financials, particularly those with recent poor earnings reports and/or announcing that they need capital:

RF (earnings bad),
STT (earnings awful),
HBAN (earnings bad),
MI (earnings bad)
SNV (needs capital)

KEY, ZION, FITB, CNB, CRBC,
STI, CMA, FBC

Some 'trust banks' that need people to trust money market funds after the Reserve Fund debacle:
BK, LM, NTRS

credit cards (Daal has set out a good case regarding credit cards being the next bad thing)
AXP, DFS, COF, WFC, JPM

NB. WFC may also have WB issues, just as BAC has MER and CFC issues.

insurers who rely upon positive returns from stocks:
HIG, LNC, GNW

monoline insurers
ABK, MBI, XL, MTG, PMI, RDN

retail
M, TLB

homebuilders:
HOV, BZH

REITs
GGP, PLD, DDR
CBL, AMB, NCT, CMO, MFA, KFN, AHT, NLY

various stocks that might be burning cash and/or need to refinance debt:
S, MOT, AMD, MU

casinos
LVS

drybulk shippers
DRYS

newspapers
NYT, GCI, WPO


Quote from m22au:

some short ideas for 2009, and some examples of how to play the ideas:

GM, GM and GM

other autos and auto related, especially F

insurers who rely upon positive returns from stocks:
HIG, LNC, GNW

retail
M, TLB

homebuilders:
HOV, BZH

monoline insurers
ABK, MBI, XL, MTG, PMI, RDN

REITs
GGP, PLD, DDR

have been bailed out but still could have some downside:
FRE, FNM, AIG, C

credit cards
AXP, DFS, COF (and BAC, WFC, JPM)

various stocks that might be burning cash and/or need to refinance debt:
S, MOT, AMD, MU

casinos
LVS

drybulk shippers
DRYS

newspapers
NYT, GCI, WPO

 
FITB
earnings ugly on 22 January

HBAN
earnings ugly on 22 January

BPOP
earnings ugly on 22 January

However before shorting these stocks, it's important to remember that the US govt will influence share prices:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151469

It could be that FITB, HBAN, BPOP (and RF, MI and SNV) could be considered to small to save, rather than "too big to fail", which is the phrase often used for BAC and C.

Either way, caution is warranted when shorting US bank stocks, especially given the share price declines since the start of the year.
 
Although CNBC is often just a bunch of people talking over each other, Bob Pisani has been making some good points about insurers today

HIG, LNC, GNW, PRU, AFL, MET, PFG

They are probably losing a lot of money in equities and dodgy structured investments
 
Back
Top