No one is recommending niacin. Which drug to take (even which statin to take among the several statins) should be decided by the person looking at your cholesterol profile, not whatever Esselstyn has done in his trial. These are individual decisions.
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Low TG and HDL, high LDL, feedback welcome
- Thread starter luisHK
- Start date
No one is recommending niacin. Which drug to take (even which statin to take among the several statins) should be decided by the person looking at your cholesterol profile, not whatever Esselstyn has done in his trial. These are individual decisions.
I have to respectfully disagree. What is the basis for being confident that statins are properly regulated and are effective?
--El Ocho Cinco, please go online and read FDA's regulations or look at the Federal Register. You'll be at it for several months. You'll find thousands of web pages of regulations on the development of drugs. The laws and regulations are numerous, onerous, and include the possibility of surprise inspections. None of this applies to supplements.
The side effects for many are dopcument in some cases are quite severe. Dest suggests tkaing CoQ10 to counter these side effects so that may be the answer.
--El OchoCinco, there are side effects to every drug, which may or may not happen in each individual. The question is whether the benefits outweigh the risks in an individual. Knowing the risks very well, I am simply saying that in some cases, statins are superior to no treatment. If I needed them, I personally would take them, but that's a personal decision. Supplements are unknowns: they might be helpful, harmful, or essentially constitute no treatment. I'm sure some of them would work (in fact there are a lot of studies on those, too) but sourcing is a problem. I can't comment on CoQ10 but my guess is it's probably harmless.
As discussed, you cannot necessarily reverse hardened arteries but if your cholesterol is high then diet can be more effective at reducing cholesterol levels to prevent more damage if you feel there truly is a 100% link between total cholesterol and coronary heart disease. There is a small subset of those with past coronary events and elevated risks that are recommended to take statins due to them falling into a high risk category and severe action needed. I liken them to severe obese being recommended for lap band (sp?) surgery.
--El OchoCinco, Ornish (also respected) has documented reversal of atherosclerosis with diet. Maybe others have done the same; I don't know. Again, his diet is extreme and probably not something most people are willing to follow. A plant-based diet is safe but unpalatable to many people.
As already proven the total cholesterol number is not indicative unless you go down to HDL/LDL and then break down LDL even further. The studies supporting statin FDA approval never considered that or had a control group that simply attacked the problem with diet. Why would there be one since you cannot patent a diet.
--Yes, El OchoCinco, you are right; one needs to look at the breakdown. There are many studies on this, and on ratios and breakdowns of these into particles. Look around on PubMed. You can "google" anything you want to there. For instance, I just typed in "LDL particle" and asked for only clinical trials. There were 495 hits. For something less overwhelming, go to the clinical guidances on the American Heart Association web site and read hundreds of pages, complete with quotes about which studies each recommendation is based on. You'll see hundreds or thousands of studies in the reference sections. I don't understand why you would state that things are not regulated or not studied when this has been done in spades.
I do not agree that one should take the drug blindly simply because the FDA approved if the science does not support a link between what the drug accomplishes and lowering the risk of coronary events.
--El OchoCinco, please do not put words in other people's mouths. No one should do anything blindly or simply because a drug has been approved. It's the obligation of your practitioner to discuss the risks and benefits of any proposed treatments before recommending or prescribing. There are many studies supporting lower risk of coronary events with statins in appropriately chosen patients. Some people choose not to take anything, and that's fine--it's a personal decision. However, it would be best for the OP or anyone to discuss things with an expert rather than get advice on this forum or a bunch of dotcom sites trying to sell things. If your practitioner is not presenting you with choices, explaining the risks, benefits, and implications of each choice, and listening respectfully to your concerns about them, then you are seeing the wrong person, and you should find someone else. In the US, cardiovascular disorders kill more people than any other disease, and this forum is the absolute last place anyone should be consulting to make a decision. I'm only writing here because I would hate to see the OP or anyone make a potentially life-altering decision based on innuendo and ignorance.
If your practitioner is not presenting you with choices, explaining the risks, benefits, and implications of each choice, and listening respectfully to your concerns about them, then you are seeing the wrong person, and you should find someone else. In the US, cardiovascular disorders kill more people than any other disease, and this forum is the absolute last place anyone should be consulting to make a decision. I'm only writing here because I would hate to see the OP or anyone make a potentially life-altering decision based on innuendo and ignorance.
What you say makes sense, except that ime, when going to the doctor, following your criteria, one quite often end up seeing the wrong person. Most obvious example would be the hospital nearest my house, where the treatment offered to most conditions will be Rest and some plant based concoction, no matter if exercise is actually advised to fight that specific condition most of the world over.
But I also recall one of the most expensive surgeons in France, operating among other places in the American Hospital of Paris, sending me a waiver to sign where I would declare he had talked me about alternative procedures when in fact he hadn't even hinted at them. Ended up going to another surgeon who seemed to be better specialized in that particular procedure as well as its alternatives, and go for an one of the other surgical options, apparently a bit more complicated for the surgeon but which allowed the patient to be fully functional faster.
I've had over the years quite a few unconvincing meetings with doctors in various countries, and would actually recommend one to research the issue online before visiting one (I wished I had earlier on, and am very appreciative of the info in this thread). At least one will be able to ask related question to the doctor or ask for specific medication and dosage- change country and u might find out not only favored treatments are different, but also normal ranges on a number of tests and advised dosages when the medicines are similar . It is not like all doctors keep updated with the latest research, are always following unbiased advice from pharmaceutical vendors or don't have to follow directives from their authorities (which can vary widely from country to country, sometimes within the same country ).
Actually tomorrow will travel to visit an ENT, spending half day for a single visit, wished we had good doctors closer to home I could visit without an interpreter, i'd sure visit them more often. Keener on seeing a specialist than a family doctor though.
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For the most part, a great way to maintain a healthy lipid profile is simple.
Dont smoke
Cut down ( alot) on refined carbs
Eat more white meat and fish for protein. Cut down on red meat to once per week
Eat more fiber and green veggies
Excercise.
You do that for one month and you will see a nice change. Problem is most arent disciplined and they fall off the wagon rather quickly.
Dont smoke
Cut down ( alot) on refined carbs
Eat more white meat and fish for protein. Cut down on red meat to once per week
Eat more fiber and green veggies
Excercise.
You do that for one month and you will see a nice change. Problem is most arent disciplined and they fall off the wagon rather quickly.
Ok, so got a new blood test, about 70 days after the first, TG shot up for some reason while HDL increased and LDL decreased significantly, all are now within the local normal range although HDL in american medical litterature should be over 40. Below are the new numbers :
TG : 134 mg/dl
CHOL: 183
HDL: 37
LDL: 112
The test this time also checked APOA and APOB which are both around the middle of the normal range, I still need to read why TG shot up while HDL and LDL values went down, if you have any idea it will be welcome fwiw below are the previous numbers.
TG : 87 mg/dl
CHOL: 186
HDL: 30.50
LDL : 154
I slowed down a lot on cardio 3 weeks ago and didn't work out for the last 10 days, will probably start again after Xmas holidays, diet has been as usual mostly, just seem to have increased eggs intake.
Besides I'm a bit disappointed with Test level @745, might be taking a lot of drugs for the result (Clomid, HCG and exemestane) Last test was about 875, not sure how levels change from day to day. Have lost quite a bit of energy since hurting my back again, although all pain has now completely disappeared. A bit talking to myself here, but will come back to this thread later on and those notes might end up useful.
TG : 134 mg/dl
CHOL: 183
HDL: 37
LDL: 112
The test this time also checked APOA and APOB which are both around the middle of the normal range, I still need to read why TG shot up while HDL and LDL values went down, if you have any idea it will be welcome fwiw below are the previous numbers.
TG : 87 mg/dl
CHOL: 186
HDL: 30.50
LDL : 154
I slowed down a lot on cardio 3 weeks ago and didn't work out for the last 10 days, will probably start again after Xmas holidays, diet has been as usual mostly, just seem to have increased eggs intake.
Besides I'm a bit disappointed with Test level @745, might be taking a lot of drugs for the result (Clomid, HCG and exemestane) Last test was about 875, not sure how levels change from day to day. Have lost quite a bit of energy since hurting my back again, although all pain has now completely disappeared. A bit talking to myself here, but will come back to this thread later on and those notes might end up useful.
Are u supplementing with zinc at all? If so, how much? Large doses can lower hdl and increase ldl.
When u say u increased eggs consumption what we talking ? Personally I eat 3 extra large eggs a day. My hdl levels are excellent and ldl is low to medium.
Stick the cardio in the bin where it belongs and workout with weights 3 to 4x a week.
When u say u increased eggs consumption what we talking ? Personally I eat 3 extra large eggs a day. My hdl levels are excellent and ldl is low to medium.
Stick the cardio in the bin where it belongs and workout with weights 3 to 4x a week.
Thanks for the tip Visaria, just looked up the meta analysis below, conclusion goes along the line of what you wrote about Zinc. I read only a small part of it, including results of studies that apparently had different findings, but the conclusion is :
"The present meta-analysis demonstrates that Zinc supplementation has favourable effects on plasma lipid parameters. Zinc supplementation significantly reduced total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol and triglycerides. In addition to that, Zinc supplementation in non-healthy patients demonstrated a significant elevation of HDL cholesterol. Therefore it may have the potential to reduce the incidence of atherosclerosis related morbidity and mortality especially in non-healthy patients who are at risk of atherosclerosis."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4523910/
At the moment supplementing with 15mg a day of Zinc, shall I increase ?
I don't count eggs, but probably eat over 15 per week, they don't look that big though. Noted you mentioned eggs and thought it was worth a try anyway, plus my diet could probably do with more fat and less carbs, so eggs wouldn't hurt. I didn't reduce much if at all consumption of red meat btw.
About the cardio in the bin, I prefer way more lifting weights, especially I can't really practice anymore the cardio intensive sports I enjoy, but will try to get back to cardio. Not sure lifting weights only while going around around 220lbs (i'm fairly happy around 220lbs, but would/will go for more if blood pressure and other markers stay in check) is good for fat control, blood pressure, cholesterol and overall health.
"The present meta-analysis demonstrates that Zinc supplementation has favourable effects on plasma lipid parameters. Zinc supplementation significantly reduced total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol and triglycerides. In addition to that, Zinc supplementation in non-healthy patients demonstrated a significant elevation of HDL cholesterol. Therefore it may have the potential to reduce the incidence of atherosclerosis related morbidity and mortality especially in non-healthy patients who are at risk of atherosclerosis."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4523910/
At the moment supplementing with 15mg a day of Zinc, shall I increase ?
I don't count eggs, but probably eat over 15 per week, they don't look that big though. Noted you mentioned eggs and thought it was worth a try anyway, plus my diet could probably do with more fat and less carbs, so eggs wouldn't hurt. I didn't reduce much if at all consumption of red meat btw.
About the cardio in the bin, I prefer way more lifting weights, especially I can't really practice anymore the cardio intensive sports I enjoy, but will try to get back to cardio. Not sure lifting weights only while going around around 220lbs (i'm fairly happy around 220lbs, but would/will go for more if blood pressure and other markers stay in check) is good for fat control, blood pressure, cholesterol and overall health.
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15mg is fine. My point was not to overdo it since there is evidence that overdosing decreases hdl and raise ldl.At the moment supplementing with 15mg a day of Zinc, shall I increase ?
Are u overweight I.e. you have too much bodyfat? If so then reducing that should be your top priority. By doing so this should improve your cholesterol numbers significantly.
Oups, i'd read your point about Zinc the other way around....
Besides i'd need to shed a few % body fat if I wanted to pose as a fitness model, but looking at picture of bodies with the attached dexa scans results i'm probably below 20% when training including cardio , which i don't mind esthetically, although getting leaner is probably healthier.
More like the 10-14 range if one follows the body fat pictures lists on the net like the one below. Quickly get fatter if I don't work out though, also last year when working out low reps only and without cardio.
https://ketogains.com/2015/09/how-to-estimate-your-body-fat-percentage-bf/
I'm a bit lazy to look them up and post links but bodybuilders come up with Dexa results @10-11% with dry 6 packs crossed by visible veins. Quite another story, they leaner than the guy showing 5-9% in the link above. not trying to teach u anything abt Dexa scans btw, as u seem you do them.
Besides i'd need to shed a few % body fat if I wanted to pose as a fitness model, but looking at picture of bodies with the attached dexa scans results i'm probably below 20% when training including cardio , which i don't mind esthetically, although getting leaner is probably healthier.
More like the 10-14 range if one follows the body fat pictures lists on the net like the one below. Quickly get fatter if I don't work out though, also last year when working out low reps only and without cardio.
https://ketogains.com/2015/09/how-to-estimate-your-body-fat-percentage-bf/
I'm a bit lazy to look them up and post links but bodybuilders come up with Dexa results @10-11% with dry 6 packs crossed by visible veins. Quite another story, they leaner than the guy showing 5-9% in the link above. not trying to teach u anything abt Dexa scans btw, as u seem you do them.
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Need to be careful about big but very lean guys, I like surfing steroids' forums and the lean guys tend to take large amount of drugs, larger than those who are not crazy about single digit body fat. Not sure being massive and very lean is the healthier way to go. I actually doubt being massive is healthy at all, but happen to like it. Still considering going on a steroids' cycle later on and grow quite a bit, but would rather be in Europe with good medical care available.
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