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Lost half of my years salary in a week!
- Thread starter acdspit00
- Start date
=======================================Quote from ssblack:
The bottom line is this:
situation, so the right thing to do now is to write a check for the full amount that you irresponsibly lost to his account.
You may be the best trader in the world, the best father, husband, and great server to our country - but you are now at a point where you must decide if you want to defend and live up to this level of integrity that you proclaim to have. I really hope, for everyone's sake, that you do this.
what dealings i have with him will be done between he and I but my original intention in posting was to first, finally get back in touch with him since I have not been able to, and second, in my own mild manner, to at least have the stigma of "scammer" understood to be wrong !
I have succeeded in achieving the first objective and honestly do not really care about the second very strongly -- perhaps one day I will return to this forumn, produce some buy and sell points for all to examine, and be judged on my abilities in that manner as i hold no rancor towards this board -- you all reacted much the same as i would probably have not having all the information to examine !
of course, like any other human, i worked to explain my situation ONLY as pertains to the "scammer" title --- anything else is what it is, and for that, no matter the reasons, i stand guilty !
enjoy and trade well
mike parker
Quote from local_crusher:
Oh my god I really wonder why you guys ("traders") are all bashing the "vendor".
If it's true that the original intention to have the money "managed" came _solely_ from the (japanese) thread starter, I see this guy 100% guilty !
Caveat Emptor. Past results are not necessarily indicative of future performance. Etc, etc.
The calls for the money to be repaid, although altruistic and morally superior, set up a bad precedence and ethically are wrong.
Loss is Loss. The manager didn't exercise sound money management principles. But those principles are not codified nor are they expressed or implied by some governing body. The manager has a wild method of trading. That's obvious. And it defies common sense. But there isn't much common sense in trading other than buy low, sell high.
The real issue is, if knowing his (the manager's) style is incompatible with the risk tolerance of the client, why did the manager accept responsibility of trading the account in a fiduciary manner? And did the manager express to the client of his trading style before they entered into agreement?
It's a scam if promises of gain without periods of loss have been made. However, if the client solely relied on past performance or anecdotal, unconfirmed past performance, the client has to bear some responsibility for their action.
Altruistically speaking, in my opinion, the most that could be paid back is 50% of what was lost.
Quote from acdspit00:
I always do things without thinking when under pressure. Was just looking for answers that were innocent and unbiased just incase I was being scammed...hasn't been the first time...
PS: Sorry MP I notice you tried calling me but at the time I am way to embarassed to answer.
Embarassed of what?! Him blowing out your account in a week? I'm afraid you still don't get it. You're still either being incredibly naive or incredibly desperate for fast, outsized, lottery-type winnings. You might as well have been deliberately scammed. Regardless of whether MP had good intentions or not, he had absolutely no business ever agreeing to manage your account. And, yes, you had no business asking an online stranger to manage your account -- without, at the very least, taking your time to do due diligence first, get references, look over an agreement, etc. Do you understand that now? I sincerely hope so.
I assume the military covers most of your living expenses... housing, food, health care, etc. If that's true, under those conditions, $18K a year can go a fairly long way -- for a 21-year-old without debt or family obligations -- toward a solid investing or trading program. But not if you stay the course you're on.
You say this isn't the first time... You're almost certainly doomed to more of the same unless you stop the madness now and take responsibility for your future financial security. Start by educating yourself about the essentials of trading (vs. investing), money management, psychology. For starters, read the first book by Van Tharp, "Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom", for an excellent, timeless roadmap. Then build on that. It's not rocket science. If you've found this forum, you can do it. Otherwise, you'd be much better off automatically investing your future savings in the Vanguard S&P 500 index fund or a portfolio of index funds.
Quote from mparkernys:
=======================================
what dealings i have with him will be done between he and I but my original intention in posting was to first, finally get back in touch with him since I have not been able to, and second, in my own mild manner, to at least have the stigma of "scammer" understood to be wrong !
I have succeeded in achieving the first objective and honestly do not really care about the second very strongly -- perhaps one day I will return to this forumn, produce some buy and sell points for all to examine, and be judged on my abilities in that manner as i hold no rancor towards this board -- you all reacted much the same as i would probably have not having all the information to examine !
of course, like any other human, i worked to explain my situation ONLY as pertains to the "scammer" title --- anything else is what it is, and for that, no matter the reasons, i stand guilty !
enjoy and trade well
mike parker
Please answer one question - are you licensed to trade someone elses funds?
<i>"so for all the people on this board, you may have your idea of my competence or whatever, BUT stay away from the SCAM word --- if you had one smidge of knowledge of who I am, how hard i fight to see that newbs keep their money thru that first hard year, how much ive devoted myself (for no renumeration) trading concepts, tools and methods (all for free, btw) and all very workable, then perhaps youre ideas of me might change !
even though not my fault, call me STUPID, but do NOT for one second consider that i could scam anyone --- my background, years of moderating and serving and countless hours of good advice stand as my reputation !
mp"</i>
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
That said <b>MP</b>, the fact is you accepted the responsibility of managing someone else's money. Similar vein to volunteer babysitting children, then neglecting to keep them out of the liquor cabinet while they play with matches.
Unintended harm? Perhaps. Realized damage? Absolutely
I've lost 90% of small account balances more than once in my past... always my own accounts. To do that with someone else' money means (at best) that you are not professionally prepared to babysit someone's account. Agreed?
Some type of gentlemen's agreement should settle this. There is nothing wrong with losing managed money... pros do it all the time. But, guidelines and written parameters between all parties on how the acts of seeking profits while controlling risk are integral to the process.
At best, this is one of the worst examples for risk management of OPM we could imagine.
Best of luck to all parties involved... should be easily resolved amongst two rational men.
even though not my fault, call me STUPID, but do NOT for one second consider that i could scam anyone --- my background, years of moderating and serving and countless hours of good advice stand as my reputation !
mp"</i>
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
That said <b>MP</b>, the fact is you accepted the responsibility of managing someone else's money. Similar vein to volunteer babysitting children, then neglecting to keep them out of the liquor cabinet while they play with matches.
Unintended harm? Perhaps. Realized damage? Absolutely
I've lost 90% of small account balances more than once in my past... always my own accounts. To do that with someone else' money means (at best) that you are not professionally prepared to babysit someone's account. Agreed?
Some type of gentlemen's agreement should settle this. There is nothing wrong with losing managed money... pros do it all the time. But, guidelines and written parameters between all parties on how the acts of seeking profits while controlling risk are integral to the process.
At best, this is one of the worst examples for risk management of OPM we could imagine.
Best of luck to all parties involved... should be easily resolved amongst two rational men.
Quote from lindq:
Brokerages are not responsible for the actions of an account holder. They aren't regulators.
Understand that the reason state and federal regulations are in place is to help prevent PRECISELY what has been discussed in this thread. And that is an informal, oral (useless) agreement to trade money for profit. Under any circumstances, it should not be done unless you are ready, willing and able to find yourself in a courtroom. Period.
A few brokerages were brought up on disciplinary actions for failing to monitor managed accounts. IB comes to mind recently. But that was a blatant case of fraud.
I'm going to research the law in this matter further. I don't believe it's as clear cut as you are presenting it though it could be.
Quote from erikdean:
The original poster stated that MP would get 25% so it was not a favor.
erik
Thanks. I overlooked that. But it seems that the manager didn't receive the funds only access to the client's account. Further, since the client seems to have frequented the message board the manager is on, the client can be deemed to be a "friend." And if a "friend," which is legally a "lose" term, no need for a license.
Also, it doesn't appear that the manager solicited the client for funds originally. Only after they agreed to have the account managed did the manage "suggest" that the client add more funds in order to increase margin.
Quote from mparkernys:
=======================================
what dealings i have with him will be done between he and I but my original intention in posting was to first, finally get back in touch with him since I have not been able to, and second, in my own mild manner, to at least have the stigma of "scammer" understood to be wrong !
I have succeeded in achieving the first objective and honestly do not really care about the second very strongly -- perhaps one day I will return to this forumn, produce some buy and sell points for all to examine, and be judged on my abilities in that manner as i hold no rancor towards this board -- you all reacted much the same as i would probably have not having all the information to examine !
of course, like any other human, i worked to explain my situation ONLY as pertains to the "scammer" title --- anything else is what it is, and for that, no matter the reasons, i stand guilty !
enjoy and trade well
mike parker
Mike,
You really cannot look me in the eye and tell me that you are not responsible for this client's account!!!
I am trying to be as fair and reasonable here. You made a mistake, and it needs to be resolved monetarily. This is a clear cut situation and all need to be made aware of the results. It is NOT simply between you and him at this point, as he came to a public forum looking for help in the situation.
At this point the floggings don't matter. The bottom line matters, and that is for you to pay him back in full. A written letter of apology would also be nice.
A proposed idea is this - what I've done with clients (and I believe is common practice) is to set a % loss of initial equity that would be lost before all trading would halt and the relationship be re-evaluated. However you did fail to do this initially, and so you are fully liable for the entire initial investment.
By the way, Lon Eagle, you are a true asset to this thread and this forum. Thank you for having been an unknown influence to many, including myself.