Losses due to negative crude prices. Who's responsible?

[JSOP]

Does this mean potential big (financial) trouble for AMP ?

https://www.desilvalawoffices.com/n...trading-amp-global-clearing-llc-and-amp-futu/

https://www.desilvalawoffices.com/images/Amp-Class-Action-Complaint-Dkt.-1.pdf

It's the same lawyer that launched the same type of lawsuits against TDA earlier https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/lawsuit-again-td-ameritrade-tos-getting-it-again.352818/ because some investors (more like gamblers) decided to trade something that they had no idea about, got burned by the -ve prices, instead of accepting the losses decided to blame the brokers that they traded with after being convinced by this ambulance-chasing lawyer that there is a chance. She doesn't dare to go after CME or the CFTC who were supposed to issue guidance on the handling of the negative trading prices of futures of course and decides instead to pick on discount brokerages thinking it can force a settlement or punitive damages from a quick win. Hang in there, AMP, hang in there! Don't give in!

Good luck!! They are going to lose and the investors are going to double lose, first from their trading, the second time in the court. The only winner here is this lawyer.

 

[JSOP]

I read the plaintiff’s lawsuit, and it would appear that they chose to sit on long positions marking wildly against them and didn’t even consider liquidating their stinkers until they saw a sustained and ongoing Zero price print.

So for the record, the first ever zero oil price print didn’t appear on April 20th until 2:08 pm.

So basically they had 20 hours and 8 minutes prior to liquidate their losers. Globex opened at 6:00 Eastern Sunday.

And they blame the broker's platform for not allowing them to liquidate. LOL Here is the ET thread where some traders actually went in and added onto their long positions when the price was tanking thinking it can score a killing and then were completely clueless when the price actually went negative on April 20th.

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/crude-oil.342757/page-17#post-5068345

Dunno if it's the same traders in that thread that are suing... I blame the lawyer. She worked on them that's for sure.

 

[JSOP]

Ambulance chasers.

Ambulance chasers indeed. Couldn't agree with you more.

 

[ph1l]

What does this mean ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambulance_chasing

Ambulance chasing, sometimes known as barratry, is a professional slur which refers to a lawyer soliciting for clients at a disaster site. The term "ambulance chasing" comes from the stereotype of lawyers that follow ambulances to the emergency room to find clients.[1] The phrase ambulance chaser is also used more loosely as a derogatory term for a personal injury lawyer.[2]

Contents

• 1Description
• 2Other uses
• 3See also
• 4References

Description[edit]
Ambulance chasing is prohibited in the United States. Such conduct violates Rule 7.3[3] of the American Bar Association Model Rules of Professional Conduct. Some bar associations strongly enforce rules against barratry. For example, the State Bar of California dispatches investigators to large-scale disaster scenes to discourage ambulance chasers, and to catch any who attempt to solicit business from disaster victims at the scene.[4]

In the UK, Indicative Behaviour (IB) 8.5 of the Solicitors Regulation Authority Code of Conduct 2011 specifies that "approaching people in the street, at ports of entry, in hospital or at the scene of an accident" is to be taken as an indication of non-compliance with the SRA Principles. [5]

 

[JSOP]

Did anybody actually take physical delivery plus the cash per barrel?

You can't take physical delivery on that commodity unless you are JP Morgan Chase. And JP Morgan Chase had to stop because it was too expensive for them.

 

[bone]

LOL, that’s why the market collapsed in the first place. The Commercials weren’t buying jack shit squat in the May contract - the long squeeze on April 20th was entirely stupid Spec accounts with a dozen brilliant ones.

Did anybody actually take physical delivery plus the cash per barrel?

 

[JSOP]

What a joke...

So the "class action" is a whopping three people who obviously lost their asses because they didn't know what they were doing, so now they're trying to pull the victim card and blame their losses on the broker.

This brings us to what I consider to be the #1 lesson for every person who decides to start trading:

Take 100% ownership of your actions. And I mean 100%. The consequences of your trading will always be a direct reflection of the choices that YOU MAKE.

And the same principle applies in every other aspect of life:

Your choices will always dictate your outcome. That's it. The choices you make for yourself, the choices you make for your family, and the choices you make in regards to who you associate with will determine the outcome you receive in all of those areas.

If you ever want to read a good book in regards to this topic, here's one I recommend. It has a military slant to it, but it still applies to every area of your life.


The bottom line is that any of those traders in the complaint could have exited their positions well before crude went negative. But they didn't. And because they didn't, and because they can't accept responsibility for their own choices, they are now choosing to cast the blame on someone else due to a scenario that never happened before in the history of crude trading prior to that date.

Considering it's not even the first class-action lawsuit for the same reason against discount brokers and it's from the same lawyer. https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/lawsuit-again-td-ameritrade-tos-getting-it-again.352818/

 

[HeSaidSheSaid]

I participated in this type of class-action lawsuit once; at the end, they sent me a check for $23 bucks; it was not worth my time.

 

[MarkBrown]

P.S. I ain't joking, @Baron Here's some cookies I got for X-Mas.

someone gave YOU cookies ! might wanna check those for ex-lax if i were you lol

 

[AMP_Futures]

Hello all...here is some quick info.

1. All Financial losses due to these claimants trades were realized by AMP the same day (on settlement). No effect on our operations.
2. We have deeply researched this scenario and have provided all the accurate trade details to all the claimants and regulators. We will provide the same in court, if not dismissed.
3. All of these claimants were in CME E-Mini Crude Oil Futures, not Full Size physically delivered Crude contracts. They were NOT deliverable contracts, they are cash settled...which allows the trader to speculate (hold contract into expiration without the risk of delivery). Then you can see what happened to the market below....

AMP does NOT provide any trade advice or recommendations. These trades were purely the decisions of the claimants and it was absolutely their right to hold the contracts into expiration (cash settlement).

CME - (QM) E-mini Crude Oil Chart - 1 min bar - 1st negative price (-0.475) April 20 2020 at 1:08pm CST (63 Contracts Traded)

CME - (QM) E-mini Crude Oil Chart - 1 min bar - 2nd negative prices (-4.425) April 20 2020 at
1:14 pm CST (2 Contracts Traded)

CME - (QM) E-mini Crude Oil Chart - 1 min bar - 3rd negative prices (-7.000) April 20 2020 at
1:17 pm CST (10 Contracts Traded)

CME - (QM) E-mini Crude Oil Chart - 1 min bar - 4th negative prices (-8.925) April 20 2020 at
1:21 pm CST (6 Contracts Traded)

CME - (QM) E-mini Crude Oil Chart - 1 min bar - 5th negative prices (-28.475) April 20 2020 at 1:27 pm CST (1 Contract Traded)

CME - (QM) E-mini Crude Oil Chart - 1 min bar - Final negative prices (-37.175) April 20 2020 at 1:28 pm CST (expired at 1:30pm CST) (1 Contract Traded)
* Final CME Exchange Settlement Price was -37.62 - processed on Statements.

The above market action is exactly what we explained to our customers

From what we experienced, when Crude Oil (CL) May 2020 Contract - Traded Negative for the 1st time in History...that the market conditions are not normal once prices traded negative. The orders we researched for our customers, were either REJECTED by CME due to Velocity Logic Circuit Breaker or were REJECTED due to not safe market conditions > NO BID - NO OFFER.

Here is the link to CME E-Mini Crude Oil Futures - Contract Specs:
https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/energy/crude-oil/emini-crude-oil_contract_specifications.html

For more info on NYMEX WTI Crude Contract Trading on and around April 20, 2020, you can read the CFTC Interim Report: https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8315-20