Looting in New Orleans..a new low for americans...and why we are minimizing the effec

[TGM]

Quote from hapaboy:

IMHO you are wrong on some points and correct on others.

I think you're right that Japan will not simply open the floodgates. HOWEVER, I believe you are going to see them accepting millions of third-worlders.

They have to.

They've been allowing skilled, IT proficient third-worlders from India and the like for sometime now. They were letting South Americans of Japanese descent, i.e. Brazil & Peru, for manufacturing jobs, but now many of those jobs are being outsourced to China, and they've pretty much emptied the well on those from SA wanting to live and work in Japan. With the rapidly aging population, they are starting to allow in SouthEast Asians for in-home care and the like. The populating aging/low birth rate issues go hand in hand; millions of workers will be needed for those jobs, which are not the first choice of the Japanese youth.

No, Japan is not "multicultural" to the extent that we or Europe are. They probably never will be. But they will have to let in foreign workers to make up for the human resource inequities.

Well actually, I agree with this. Japan will not allow uncontrolled immigration. I believe they allow all kinds of workers. But they don't let them attain citizenship. They are there to work and that is it. I have nothing against that. These kind of discussions are difficult to have online simply because it is impossible to go into things without writing a book and even there will be misunderstandings that do not happen in person.

Every situation around the world is slightly different. You have to discuss them in historical context and on a case by case basis. The general problem/challenge will be this. If Japan imports the Plaid people in to do the jobs they do not want to do. And say Japan gives them citizenship. And say the Plaid people have big families average 7 children each. Eventually, wether it be in 10 years, 20 years, 50 years with those birth rates Japan would have political difficulties. Are they to surrender their country to Non-Japanese?

Will the Hindus of India surrender their thousands of years of traditions to Muslims just because they have more votes? If it si a democracy that is supposed to happen. However, history has never been kind in these situations. In general, someone looses it all. Ethnic cleansing and a historical restart takes place. That is the ugly part of history.

Of late, the US and others have stepped in and tried to stop ethnic violence. Serbia is a good example. But now the Muslims are ethnically cleansing the Serbs. People with different versions of the past will always have different visions of the future. How do you rectify that? Do you really think Britain are going to surrender their Island in 50 years to a Muslim majority? How about Holland? Are we going to bomb France if the Muslims want to split up the country because they are being mistreated?

Will American just end up a paradise with a Latin American Majority and be one big melting pot? Remember the US took the Southwest from Mexico. They remember it damn well. You think they are going to sit around and pay for all the old gringos retirements? Everyone hopes so. But what if everyone is wrong? Kinda like a big trade. What is going to happen if we are wrong? Well, your downside is some kind of civil war and/or splitting up the country. Correct? That is Americas worst case scenario. Mexicans have a different version of the past. Which means they are going have a different interpretation of the future.

Alot of posters (myself included) have been very hard on the mostly African looters that have been shown all over the place. One fact remains, they have a radical different interpretation of the past. I don't see any way around it. Up until now. It has created a dream political situation of divide and rule. This always creates problems longterm.

This is obviously on my mind. Because right now I am trying to decide were I want to live in the future. I saw enough ethnic violence growing up in Detroit to last ten lifetimes. Nothing I would not to see again.

 

[hapaboy]

Quote from TGM:

Well actually, I agree with this. Japan will not allow uncontrolled immigration. I believe they allow all kinds of workers. But they don't let them attain citizenship. They are there to work and that is it. I have nothing against that. These kind of discussions are difficult to have online simply because it is impossible to go into things without writing a book and even there will be misunderstandings that do not happen in person.

Agreed. Thanks for your thoughts, much appreciated.

 

[lar]

http://thatvideosite.com/view/614.html

 

[TGM]

Quote from Rearden Metal:

Ok, now you're saying <b>the exact same things I believe in</b>, making me feel like a dick for even suggesting you're one of those jerks that moan about the 'filthy fucking n....' when they drink.

I mean, you probably CAN understand the source of my confusion. You don't have to mention you're a Libertarian or call yourself 'John Galt' or 'Rearden Metal' for me to know that you're heavily influenced by Rand. The terminology you use is quite enough to make this easily recognizable.

...but then you start talking about issues that we Objectivists always prefer to ignore, and mention white supremacist material in neutral (if not positive) terms. Well, I think you can understand why anyone would be confused about your true beliefs.

It's like mixing pacifist philosophy with Wahabi Islam- an almost absurd mix that noone has ever seen before.

Ah, you are not up to date on the arguments. There are many arguments going on between Libertarians right now. For instance, how transferable are these libertarian values?

Western Civilization is a unique invention. I used to be utopian to some degree and think things were transferable simply because the only difference was opportunity vs poverty. But I am now agnostic. The Marxist version of history is deeply flawed. What if things like IQ matter? What if there is a broader degree of differences between the human species than most will admit? In other words, what if we are wrong and all people are not equal (it is only every otherday that Reuters is releasing some news on a race based drug). And to what extent are people not equal? Definately not a polite conversation at this day in time.

And yes, that is definitely Racialism to some degree. No way around it. The ideal that just culture decides everything is flawed. All human ideas are flawed to some degree. What everyone is worried about is the the big question. What if you are wrong? Are you willing to risk Western Civilization to find out? On top of that, what about the ethnic interest of european people? Europe is their continent. Are Italians suppose to surrender their culture to strangers? Will it still be Italian? Is it worth preserving?

You want to be the Muslim North African boy trying immigrate and date Meadow Soprano the morning Tony Soprano wakes up and realizes that Italians as HE knows them are going to be extinct in 2045? I wouldn't want to be Irish boy there trying to date her . Much less the non-european. It would be unprecedented for someone to just rollover and wish for their own culture/genetic extinction. Now you can tell him that all people are equal that everyone bleeds red etc...etc....But a little bird tells me that may not fly with him. But these are real questions.

That is the argument on the paleocon boards and they are going back and forth on this.(http://blog.lewrockwell.com/ has some paleocon viewpoints).

With Open Boarders the libertarian argument stated the Govt. would whither away (ala Marx). I liked that idea. I dislike Govt. However, an objective look will tell anyone that it has not occurred as thought. California has become more statist. It is like we imported more statist policies from Mexico right into the Southwest. California has not become more libertarian. Not even a close call on that one. That is why the PaleoCons of the Libertarian movement (and Conservative) are gaining attention. Anytime you make a good call. People are going to listen. The guys that run Vdare website (Brimelow brothers) are famous PaleoCon Libertarians.

I am agnostic as of this point. I am still thinking this one through. But this will decide everything in the future---especially investment trends. The only thing I do know from experience is that having people around each other with historical animosity is a recipe for disaster. No amount of laws forcing people to love each other work in such circumstances.

It has only been since WW2 that no one was allowed to publicly talk about differences. Before that. That was the only thing the right and the left agreed on! What you see as some radical contrast has only been recent. Marxism was never been historically concerned with the plight of Africans (read Marx's letters to the Confederacy). Socialists were adamantly opposed to noneuropean labor in America.

I am guessing you have never read Proudhon? He is the father of Anarchism and Libertarianism. If you read him you will see were these historic sides of Libertarianism start over a hundred years ago.

He wrote the following statement over a hundred years ago. It made huge impression on me when I first read it. Read it and tell him is not a libertarian! This is one of the quotes that started it all.

"To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be place[d] under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality."

P.J. Proudhon

 

[Rearden Metal]

Proudhon. The collectivist who hated government. Not really my kind of guy, considering the fact that collectivism <b>is</b> the disease. Government abuses in the name of the collective... are merely a symptom.

"The Jew is by temperament an anti-producer, neither a farmer nor an industrial nor even a true merchant. He is an intermediary, always fraudulent and parasitic, who operates, in trade as in philosophy, by means of falsification, counterfeiting, horse-dealing.... Satan....incarnated in the race of Sem."

~ P.J. Proudhon


No, not my kind of guy at all.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

September 3, 2005
United States of Shame
By MAUREEN DOWD

Stuff happens.

And when you combine limited government with incompetent government, lethal stuff happens.

America is once more plunged into a snake pit of anarchy, death, looting, raping, marauding thugs, suffering innocents, a shattered infrastructure, a gutted police force, insufficient troop levels and criminally negligent government planning. But this time it's happening in America.

W. drove his budget-cutting Chevy to the levee, and it wasn't dry. Bye, bye, American lives. "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees," he told Diane Sawyer.

Shirt-sleeves rolled up, W. finally landed in Hell yesterday and chuckled about his wild boozing days in "the great city" of N'Awlins. He was clearly moved. "You know, I'm going to fly out of here in a minute," he said on the runway at the New Orleans International Airport, "but I want you to know that I'm not going to forget what I've seen." Out of the cameras' range, and avoided by W., was a convoy of thousands of sick and dying people, some sprawled on the floor or dumped on baggage carousels at a makeshift M*A*S*H unit inside the terminal.

Why does this self-styled "can do" president always lapse into such lame "who could have known?" excuses.

Who on earth could have known that Osama bin Laden wanted to attack us by flying planes into buildings? Any official who bothered to read the trellis of pre-9/11 intelligence briefs.

Who on earth could have known that an American invasion of Iraq would spawn a brutal insurgency, terrorist recruiting boom and possible civil war? Any official who bothered to read the C.I.A.'s prewar reports.

Who on earth could have known that New Orleans's sinking levees were at risk from a strong hurricane? Anybody who bothered to read the endless warnings over the years about the Big Easy's uneasy fishbowl.

In June 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, fretted to The Times-Picayune in New Orleans: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."

Not only was the money depleted by the Bush folly in Iraq; 30 percent of the National Guard and about half its equipment are in Iraq.

Ron Fournier of The Associated Press reported that the Army Corps of Engineers asked for $105 million for hurricane and flood programs in New Orleans last year. The White House carved it to about $40 million. But President Bush and Congress agreed to a $286.4 billion pork-filled highway bill with 6,000 pet projects, including a $231 million bridge for a small, uninhabited Alaskan island.

Just last year, Federal Emergency Management Agency officials practiced how they would respond to a fake hurricane that caused floods and stranded New Orleans residents. Imagine the feeble FEMA's response to Katrina if they had not prepared.

Michael Brown, the blithering idiot in charge of FEMA - a job he trained for by running something called the International Arabian Horse Association - admitted he didn't know until Thursday that there were 15,000 desperate, dehydrated, hungry, angry, dying victims of Katrina in the New Orleans Convention Center.

Was he sacked instantly? No, our tone-deaf president hailed him in Mobile, Ala., yesterday: "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."

It would be one thing if President Bush and his inner circle - Dick Cheney was vacationing in Wyoming; Condi Rice was shoe shopping at Ferragamo's on Fifth Avenue and attended "Spamalot" before bloggers chased her back to Washington; and Andy Card was off in Maine - lacked empathy but could get the job done. But it is a chilling lack of empathy combined with a stunning lack of efficiency that could make this administration implode.

When the president and vice president rashly shook off our allies and our respect for international law to pursue a war built on lies, when they sanctioned torture, they shook the faith of the world in American ideals.

When they were deaf for so long to the horrific misery and cries for help of the victims in New Orleans - most of them poor and black, like those stuck at the back of the evacuation line yesterday while 700 guests and employees of the Hyatt Hotel were bused out first - they shook the faith of all Americans in American ideals. And made us ashamed.

Who are we if we can't take care of our own?

 

[Rearden Metal]

TGM, you're probably only the second person on ET to use the term 'statist'. I would be the first.

Quote from TGM:

Calling Islam a religion of Peace ---is like calling a stick of dynamite a candle. It is a religion of Peace in an Islamic country under Sharia. Of course, you won't find one country on earth with a muslim population that is not having problems. As soon as they hit critical mass. It becomes a damn conspiracy to take over.

Quote from Rearden Metal:

How many more terrorist atrocities will it take for everyone to understand that Islam isn't the poor misunderstood religion of peace the apologists would like us to believe?

Islamic nuclear terrorism will happen within our lifetimes. Maybe then...?

A is A, strict common sense, property rights...you <b>sound</b> just like me... but then comes all the Eurocentrism stuff which makes me quite uneasy.

Are you my evil twin?

 

[zdreg]

Quote from TGM:

Well I see South America blowing up in the future as well. Your analysis on Europe is correct. The politicos are trying to make us more like South America. I used to think they might succeed. But there are millions upon millions of people in America that won't take that kind of hell hole.

Here is a decent article on a current political trend in South America.

where is the article link?

 

[Gringinho]

Quote from TGM:

Ah, you are not up to date on the arguments. There are many arguments going on between Libertarians right now. For instance, how transferable are these libertarian values?

Western Civilization is a unique invention. I used to be utopian to some degree and think things were transferable simply because the only difference was opportunity vs poverty. But I am now agnostic. The Marxist version of history is deeply flawed. What if things like IQ matter? What if there is a broader degree of differences between the human species than most will admit? In other words, what if we are wrong and all people are not equal (it is only every otherday that Reuters is releasing some news on a race based drug). And to what extent are people not equal? Definately not a polite conversation at this day in time.

And yes, that is definitely Racialism to some degree. No way around it. The ideal that just culture decides everything is flawed. All human ideas are flawed to some degree. What everyone is worried about is the the big question. What if you are wrong? Are you willing to risk Western Civilization to find out? On top of that, what about the ethnic interest of european people? Europe is their continent. Are Italians suppose to surrender their culture to strangers? Will it still be Italian? Is it worth preserving?

You want to be the Muslim North African boy trying immigrate and date Meadow Soprano the morning Tony Soprano wakes up and realizes that Italians as HE knows them are going to be extinct in 2045? I wouldn't want to be Irish boy there trying to date her . Much less the non-european. It would be unprecedented for someone to just rollover and wish for their own culture/genetic extinction. Now you can tell him that all people are equal that everyone bleeds red etc...etc....But a little bird tells me that may not fly with him. But these are real questions.

...
But this will decide everything in the future---especially investment trends. The only thing I do know from experience is that having people around each other with historical animosity is a recipe for disaster. No amount of laws forcing people to love each other work in such circumstances.

It has only been since WW2 that no one was allowed to publicly talk about differences. Before that. That was the only thing the right and the left agreed on!
...
He wrote the following statement over a hundred years ago. It made huge impression on me when I first read it. Read it and tell him is not a libertarian! This is one of the quotes that started it all.

"To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be place[d] under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality."

P.J. Proudhon

You have obviously a lot of strains of nationalism in you - part social-nationalism it seems. You claim libertarian values, but you are for strictly governing borders, and claim "genetic extinction" if races mix ...
I don't think the thing about the sheets was that far away still, Casper.

 

[buzzy2]

Quote from Gringinho:

You have obviously a lot of strains of nationalism in you - part social-nationalism it seems. You claim libertarian values, but you are for strictly governing borders, and claim "genetic extinction" if races mix ...
I don't think the thing about the sheets was that far away still, Casper.

He's just telling it like it is. He does not claim to have a racial preference, he's just telling that people do and people can't be changed.

In Europe and America they don't like to talk about it it's politically incorrect.

But if you go to South-America, then you can hear 'educated' white people talk openly about the undesirability of mixing with the "indians", of preserving race purity, or of improving the "race" by marrying foreign white partners. I mean these are not southern white trash, this is supposedly affluent highly educated people. You can either get offended and cover your eyes and ears, or get a whole new perspective of human nature.

Griginho you are obviously from Brazil. Gringinho means whitey doesn't it? If you're a whitey I wonder how many brown/black friends do you have or how many brown/black ex girlfriends have you had. Exactly.

Maybe it's just human nature to tend to associate with similar looking people. Part of our tribal or monkey heritage I guess, chimps don't hang out with gorillas.