If you spent the entire year living in France and had a million euros in trading income, good luck convincing the French tax authorities that you didn't earn any/all of that in France!
Looking to relocate. But to where?
- Thread starter tortoise
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You clearly did not read what I wrote. Or you absolute want to be right and showing me wrong. Even in extreme absurdity.
I never wrote that I lived an entire year in France. I never live anywhere for an entire year. I experience every day over and over again the advantage of being a trader.
Case closed for me.
France once tried to tax Johhny Debb as he spent (in past) a lot of time in the South of France. They were never able to tax him as his official residence was not in France. That was a huge problem to overcome.
Well earlier you said you could live the entire year in a country, and even in you last post you couldn't seem to figure out if you needed to hop between countries every 90 days or could just use your Schengen citizenship to stay in France all year. The bottom line is that you can't live in France, or Spain all year and claim that all your income is taxable in Bulgaria and not the place you lived when you earned it. I'm glad we agree on that.
Now, let's say you're one of the few people who are happy to hop from country to country every 90 days all your life to pay less tax and have a family situation that will tolerate that. This is really no different from a legal perspective than living in one country all year, it's just more obfuscated and difficult from an enforcement perspective. If, as you said multiple times you didn't spend a day in Bulgaria, you earned that income while physically in another country. Under the laws of that country you owe tax to that country on the income you earned while physically there. That's been well established through case law and some cute sea lawyer explanation that you actually made the money in Bulgaria because you routed your orders through a broker there, or you were really just a tourist, or anything else really, isn't going to cut it. You can't live in 4 places over the course of a year and tell each one that you earned your million euros in a 5th place you never set foot in during that year. Or like I said, you can try it but good luck.
There's a big difference between doing something legally and doing something that's difficult to trace and you may not get caught for. I don't judge you for the latter, just don't confuse yourself into thinking you're doing the former. Or even worse get someone else to take a risk they're not aware they're taking.
Not true, depends of the circumstances. My physical presence is, depending of the case and situation, even not relevant. Not the physical presence is important; imporant is form where is the management controlling everything. If I have a company in which an employee is managing everything, that will define where the taxation should happen. So not the physical presence is important but the place from where the business is managed. If it is personal money you are right if it is company money you are wrong. Personal as well as company pay flat 10%, so what money you use makes no difference taxwise. I have, and use, both. I do nothing illegal. Just optimize according the circumstances. And even trading occasionally in another country can never lead to a taxation. In most cases the 183 days rule is applied.
I think i did say that you can do it without living in Bulgaria. Not that I never go there. I have my domicile and other things in Bulgaria so I go there every now and then. I have to.
People should always take profesional advice. I told there are possibilities and you should dig deep. Deeper than we discuss here now. But I don't want to divulge more. I gave a hint, the rest they have to do themselves with professional help.
I believe you'd only get in trouble if you stayed in France (example) for more than 181/183 days or 6 months in one year. Otherwise you're like any other tourist who opens his laptop to briefly do some work - tax man won't touch that.
It depends on the country and how hard they'd press him. They'd look at where he spent most of his time, then residence, then bills and anything else that can confirm he actually stayed in the country where he paid tax. If he says he spent most of his time in Bulgaria but France has some sort of proof that he stayed mostly in France, that can actually end not well. Best not to underestimate the tax collectors.
I wonder how they know how long I am in France? They should also first have something that brings me under their attention. They cannot check every person walking around in France. There are no borders and no control as long as you don't take a plane or an international train. And how can they find out how much money I make, and where I make it? I can proof that I have enough money in my savings accounts for the rest of my life.
I never stay 183 days a year in any country. So the only country that can tax me is Bulgaria.
If I am right the 183 days rule is only valid for people who are employed; self employed people don't have to care about this rule. Not 100% sure but fairly sure.
Found this:
Based on article 15 of the OECD Model Convention, the remuneration of a seconded employee is in principle taxed in the country where the work is actually exercised. However, the right of taxation remains with the country of residence if the employee:
- is not present in the working state more than 183 days; and
- the salary is not borne by a PE of the employer in the working country; and
- the salary is paid by an employer, or on behalf of an employer, who is not resident in the working country.
- the employee is integrated into the business of the host entity;
- the employee is under the control of that entity;
- the activities of the employee form part of the business of the host entity;
- the risks of the activities are borne by this employer.
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As I've said all along, just don't confuse something legal with something illegal but that you're unlikely to be caught at. When you start asking the above questions you're tacitly admitting that if they knew what you were doing, they'd give you a tax bill.