I agree with nitro.
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looking to make a career switch (from software dev), suggestions?
- Thread starter keyser1
- Start date
I retired last year from an IT job on Wall Street. I basically agree with Rufus, but I do know of a several exceptions in my career who were able to transfer to trading from IT- very hard working, type A personalities who successfully made the transition from IT to trading.
One guy now runs the US Treasury desk at a major investment bank. The other guy is now a senior guy (and part owner of) Bloomberg.
There were a few others who were able to make the transition in two steps IT --> Research --> Trading. This is somewhat easier.
Based on your comment on work hours and salary requirements, I don't think you could make the transition. A laid back personality has no chance.
One guy now runs the US Treasury desk at a major investment bank. The other guy is now a senior guy (and part owner of) Bloomberg.
There were a few others who were able to make the transition in two steps IT --> Research --> Trading. This is somewhat easier.
Based on your comment on work hours and salary requirements, I don't think you could make the transition. A laid back personality has no chance.
I'm in a similar situation as you. Almost identical but more on the information security side of the house. As an expat my situation is even more sweet, and even harder to give up to trade full-time.
You are facing a few issues:
1) A complete career change means throwing everything you worked for to establish yourself out the window. An essay about a long-term Wall Street Journal editor who chucked his well-paying editor job to be a hospital nurse illustrated this very well. He went back to the journal after a couple of years.
2) You already are at the upper end of the income range in America.
3) You'll start at the very bottom. Your existing background means nothing, unless you can marry the two.
4) You readily admit that your personal life is much more important than your business life, i.e. the time you are willing to commit. I believe this is the right choice to make as well. Unfortunately, you are competing with people who have no such qualms. You are also looking to be hired by people who have the philosophy that 40 hours a week is part-time half-a**ed work. You and I know this isn't true. In our line of work, there are geniuses who can do 40 hours of brilliant work in 8 hours. Our philosophy is if a person can't get all of their work done in an 8 hour day then something is seriously wrong.
I was able to make my first complete career change because I married the two together, i.e. medicine with health care IT. The later switch over to info sec was a no brainer.
Any thought about trading as a career is quickly dismissed, unless I were able to trade my own account. That is what I've settled on, attempting to trade my own account as a professional trader, not as an employee.
Just my two cents. Everyone's circumstances are different. My big change occurred when I was single, after a few years of solo practice in a small town. My income was low so I had nothing to lose.
I think perhaps we've fallen into a complacent trap of not appreciating how good we have it. We have the luxury of choice, including the luxury of making a choice that doesn't make financial sense no matter how you look at it.
You are facing a few issues:
1) A complete career change means throwing everything you worked for to establish yourself out the window. An essay about a long-term Wall Street Journal editor who chucked his well-paying editor job to be a hospital nurse illustrated this very well. He went back to the journal after a couple of years.
2) You already are at the upper end of the income range in America.
3) You'll start at the very bottom. Your existing background means nothing, unless you can marry the two.
4) You readily admit that your personal life is much more important than your business life, i.e. the time you are willing to commit. I believe this is the right choice to make as well. Unfortunately, you are competing with people who have no such qualms. You are also looking to be hired by people who have the philosophy that 40 hours a week is part-time half-a**ed work. You and I know this isn't true. In our line of work, there are geniuses who can do 40 hours of brilliant work in 8 hours. Our philosophy is if a person can't get all of their work done in an 8 hour day then something is seriously wrong.
I was able to make my first complete career change because I married the two together, i.e. medicine with health care IT. The later switch over to info sec was a no brainer.
Any thought about trading as a career is quickly dismissed, unless I were able to trade my own account. That is what I've settled on, attempting to trade my own account as a professional trader, not as an employee.
Just my two cents. Everyone's circumstances are different. My big change occurred when I was single, after a few years of solo practice in a small town. My income was low so I had nothing to lose.
I think perhaps we've fallen into a complacent trap of not appreciating how good we have it. We have the luxury of choice, including the luxury of making a choice that doesn't make financial sense no matter how you look at it.
Quote from keyser1:
I'm currently a software engineer, and I'd like to make a career switch.
Just some background info; I'm 27, have an MS in comp sci from Columbia, and 5 years software dev experience...I'm pretty good at analytical tests, although its been a while since I've been in school so I'd probably have to do alot of studying to get back my forgottten probability/stats/calc knowledge...Currently work for a .net startup...
My goals for a new job:
1. Something more quantitative/analytical
2. Would be okay if some software dev was part of the job descrption (ie coming up with models & then coding them up)
3. Not take a pay cut (I'm currently at 100k including bonus); or would be willing to take a small cut if there's alot more upside than sw dev.
4. 9-10 hours/day avg. Not looking to work 8am to midnight. Would be willing to stay late for studying/classes though.
....
I think you may want to examine whether or not such a switch is really going to be a positive thing for you. I graduated in the mid 80's with a BS in Computer Engineering, with a software focus. I have been in software development for 21 years now. I went through some phases like you are talking about..... got bored working with low level system code after about 3 years.... tried trading on my own for about 8 months (it was not a realistic attempt - just a 25 year old's bright idea while still single).... went to work as a software contractor for about 5 years in various telecomm companies..... worked for a startup for 2 years before it went under.....wondered if I should go back to school for an MBA.....eventually I got to a brokerage firm where I could do software development related to supporting various trading related issues - I have been there 7 years and still fairly happy and I put in about 45 hours per week usually except for a few occasional extra hours for critical releases.
I also had some friends that transitioned from software engineering to financial jobs via the MBA route, and also a couple who went into sales, etc. They did well financially, but the lifestyle change was a bit drastic compared to the development world.....some were on the road 3 weeks out of every month, working nights and weekends was a lifestyle for them.....100 hour workweeks were normal.....the stress was evident in their bodies - lack of sleep, overdrinking, constantly getting called about work even when on vacations, or on holidays. It was worth it to them, but to me I would rather have control of my off-work time to pursue my own interests and keep a solid family life.
When I considered that one of them had paid about $25K for the MBA, and was now making about $250K for 100 hours/week, it really started to lose its appeal. Effectively, he was not making any more per hour than I was, even though he was very stressed out.
Some things you should consider that might make your decision easier - explore whether you can find software development jobs in finance, see if you can get another software development position with a company that offers some stock options or stock equity built into the compensation plan - this will get you some more upside than just the salary.....position trade some money to develop another source of income.
Just some ideas. I would consider before you attempt to climb the mountain to get into the finance world, consider whether you will be happy with the position you end up in once you are there. You may find the grass is greener where you are now.
Quote from fframe38:
When I considered that one of them had paid about $25K for the MBA, and was now making about $250K for 100 hours/week, it really started to lose its appeal. Effectively, he was not making any more per hour than I was, even though he was very stressed out.
The above paragraph summarizes an important point that 99% of people don't understand.
At 100K a year, and in particular if you have incredible benefits, and if you are working no more than 40 hours a week, you are in reality making a lot more than you think. Most people making that salary are putting in at least 60 hours a week. At least!
I walked away from a job where I was working from 7AM to 9PM every day, and 7AM to 3PM on Saturdays. I know for a fact had I continued I would still be working close to those hours, and only making roughly what I make right now.
Thanks for the personal stories.
Over the past week or two, I've kind of dismissed my ideas of going into finance (atleast for now).
You're right. I could make more in finance, but if I have to work 20 hours/week more, then it kind-of washes out.
My personality isn't necessarily laid back (as one prior poster assumed), but rather there's other hobbies I have (learning foreign languages is one, sports is anothe) that if I worked 70hour/weeks I wouldnt be able to do (or would be too tired to concentrated on)....BTW, I probably work 45-50 hour weeks right now (with little slack time during those hours) and I'm happy with that amount.
I do have stock options; so I think atleast for the time being, its probably best to stay put until the company gets bought out or it looks like it won't make it (I'd say we're within a year of make or break time)
Maybe in a year I'll revisit the situation.
Over the past week or two, I've kind of dismissed my ideas of going into finance (atleast for now).
You're right. I could make more in finance, but if I have to work 20 hours/week more, then it kind-of washes out.
My personality isn't necessarily laid back (as one prior poster assumed), but rather there's other hobbies I have (learning foreign languages is one, sports is anothe) that if I worked 70hour/weeks I wouldnt be able to do (or would be too tired to concentrated on)....BTW, I probably work 45-50 hour weeks right now (with little slack time during those hours) and I'm happy with that amount.
I do have stock options; so I think atleast for the time being, its probably best to stay put until the company gets bought out or it looks like it won't make it (I'd say we're within a year of make or break time)
Maybe in a year I'll revisit the situation.