His post is more valueable to theard starter trading career than anyone else
Looking to get into trading in Chicago
- Thread starter IUgrad05
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His post is more valueable to theard starter trading career than anyone else
since it's so useful, help us to break each statement down:
1) get in line bud. everyone wants to be a trader. --- Wow, that's quite insightful.
2) i can only assume you know nothing and therefore wouldn't be able to make nothing IMHO ---
Ok, so that's the most helpful post out of all the posts? I guess if you have to be right you have to be right.
1) get in line bud. everyone wants to be a trader. --- Wow, that's quite insightful.
2) i can only assume you know nothing and therefore wouldn't be able to make nothing IMHO ---
Ok, so that's the most helpful post out of all the posts? I guess if you have to be right you have to be right.
I actually had a hard time(it's normal) starting in Chicago. Just ask the guys in the Chicago thread in Hook up...
Previous to Chicago, I was a prop. trader in Los Angeles, trading using discretion, for about 7 years. I taught myself to program in Tradestation and WealthLab to get into system trading because my goal was to become a hedge fund manager.
I moved to Chicago to work for a hedge fund so that I can learn and build my skills as a trading system developer. But I couldn't get a job initially due to my educational background, 2 years of college, which I dropped out of to start trading. So for 3 years, I paid my bills as a chef in a restaurant, which I became fairly good at.
During that time, I built my experience, skills, resume and most importantly networks. I was working small projects for little to no pay, developing systems and programming different applications for trading. Obviously, I had to teach myself to program in C++ (C#) and learn about technical order dynamics, computer networks, quantitative math, and whole lotta other stuff.
Seriously, it wasn't easy being where I'm at. I'm in Sydney, Australia right now working on a project from a Chicago trader's recommendation. Then I'm going to Japan, for another position. I had to go through 3 years of shit, even when I was a profitable trader and a better developer than most of the guys out there.
Especially in Chicago, 1/2 of your success comes from who you know. And of course, the other 1/2 being what you can do. Networks can get you inside the door fast. But you need skills to stay inside and trust me, firms cut people fast, unless you're cousins with the owner or know someone large....
My recommendation is:
1. Be really friendly but also very business. Work hard on building relations. Even if you suck, if the people in the firm likes you they will keep you around and "try" to teach you to be profitable.
2. Be smart. You have to show the firm, the potential of becoming profitable. They'll give you a few chances here and there.
3. Work hard. Even if you befriend everyone, I'll give the guy... 2-3 months to breakeven. (2 weeks for a regular Joe to be fired)
4. Learn a lot about sports like Football, Baseball and Basketball(Pro and college). Out of trading, this is all they talk about. (ahhh... also woman, sex, drugs, nightlife stuff) It's good to have a good knowledge on these to break some of the ice, with other traders....
Good luck...
Previous to Chicago, I was a prop. trader in Los Angeles, trading using discretion, for about 7 years. I taught myself to program in Tradestation and WealthLab to get into system trading because my goal was to become a hedge fund manager.
I moved to Chicago to work for a hedge fund so that I can learn and build my skills as a trading system developer. But I couldn't get a job initially due to my educational background, 2 years of college, which I dropped out of to start trading. So for 3 years, I paid my bills as a chef in a restaurant, which I became fairly good at.
During that time, I built my experience, skills, resume and most importantly networks. I was working small projects for little to no pay, developing systems and programming different applications for trading. Obviously, I had to teach myself to program in C++ (C#) and learn about technical order dynamics, computer networks, quantitative math, and whole lotta other stuff.
Seriously, it wasn't easy being where I'm at. I'm in Sydney, Australia right now working on a project from a Chicago trader's recommendation. Then I'm going to Japan, for another position. I had to go through 3 years of shit, even when I was a profitable trader and a better developer than most of the guys out there.
Especially in Chicago, 1/2 of your success comes from who you know. And of course, the other 1/2 being what you can do. Networks can get you inside the door fast. But you need skills to stay inside and trust me, firms cut people fast, unless you're cousins with the owner or know someone large....
My recommendation is:
1. Be really friendly but also very business. Work hard on building relations. Even if you suck, if the people in the firm likes you they will keep you around and "try" to teach you to be profitable.
2. Be smart. You have to show the firm, the potential of becoming profitable. They'll give you a few chances here and there.
3. Work hard. Even if you befriend everyone, I'll give the guy... 2-3 months to breakeven. (2 weeks for a regular Joe to be fired)
4. Learn a lot about sports like Football, Baseball and Basketball(Pro and college). Out of trading, this is all they talk about. (ahhh... also woman, sex, drugs, nightlife stuff) It's good to have a good knowledge on these to break some of the ice, with other traders....
Good luck...
krazybar, did you trade at DE?
If you have savings, why don't you give it a year trading a small account, see how you do, if you manage to get your annual return above 20% on initial capital, then start a capital management fund and plug it. Actually trading a small account you should do much better than 20% IMO to prove your ability.
This is completely my own opinion, so don't bash me for this, but...
I think that many traders fail because they aren't able to look at both the small and bigger picture at the same time.
With decimalization has come lower volatility. So, big moves get faded today much faster than they would have 5 years back.
If you are a trader who only looks at lagging technical indicators and who can't read the tape, then getting good fills is going to be next to impossible. You're going to end up buying the top and selling the bottom more often than not.
At the same time, if you are focused on the tape and give credence to every ECN that's "dishing" you're not going to hold onto winning trades long enough to make the money that's going to offset losing trades.
Most people simply don't understand how tight and margin-of-error free trading at the professional level is.
IMHO, nobody trading at the retail level has any business daytrading.
I think that many traders fail because they aren't able to look at both the small and bigger picture at the same time.
With decimalization has come lower volatility. So, big moves get faded today much faster than they would have 5 years back.
If you are a trader who only looks at lagging technical indicators and who can't read the tape, then getting good fills is going to be next to impossible. You're going to end up buying the top and selling the bottom more often than not.
At the same time, if you are focused on the tape and give credence to every ECN that's "dishing" you're not going to hold onto winning trades long enough to make the money that's going to offset losing trades.
Most people simply don't understand how tight and margin-of-error free trading at the professional level is.
IMHO, nobody trading at the retail level has any business daytrading.
I think Romik has a decent point - there is alot to be said for trading your own money
I should stress that it can be difficult to overcome deskfees and commission AND a split when you are backed by a firm....
However, if you do start out trading your own account you have to be so proactive about educating yourself....and it can be very isolating to trade alone!
I should stress that it can be difficult to overcome deskfees and commission AND a split when you are backed by a firm....
However, if you do start out trading your own account you have to be so proactive about educating yourself....and it can be very isolating to trade alone!
IU:
If you DO have savings, then a better way to use them would be to subsidize your desire to work for a trading firm. Use this time to find a firm for which to work, and don't expect to make any money.
If any of your B-school professors have contacts in the brokerage world, leverage them to network into a brokerage. If your profs don't have the contacts, ask them which ones do have such contacts, and correspond with them via email.
I am constantly amazed by people on this site playing the same old recordings over and over:
*You're nothing unless you've opened your own account and traded.
*The only way to learn this buiness is to read books.
There's validity to those statements, but not universally. You are on the right track. Don't let pinheads with chips on their shoulders convince you otherwise.
Oops. I called them names. Now, it's open season for them to highlight one comment from my posting and take it totally out of context. Fun, fun.
OT
If you DO have savings, then a better way to use them would be to subsidize your desire to work for a trading firm. Use this time to find a firm for which to work, and don't expect to make any money.
If any of your B-school professors have contacts in the brokerage world, leverage them to network into a brokerage. If your profs don't have the contacts, ask them which ones do have such contacts, and correspond with them via email.
I am constantly amazed by people on this site playing the same old recordings over and over:
*You're nothing unless you've opened your own account and traded.
*The only way to learn this buiness is to read books.
There's validity to those statements, but not universally. You are on the right track. Don't let pinheads with chips on their shoulders convince you otherwise.
Oops. I called them names. Now, it's open season for them to highlight one comment from my posting and take it totally out of context. Fun, fun.
OT