Looking for "edge" ideas...

[MarketAddict]

Quote from NoDoji:

Considering variations on a theme, that's about right

Quick question.. Let's say if price pull back on the 1 min 20 ema and then you get a signal... Are you putting your stop loss right behind your entry 1 min candle or do you have a hard 15 tick stop?

 

[Swan Noir]

I suspect that those that have a real ear for music and languages have a nice head start in there quest to master discretionary trading. I'm not suggesting it "makes" them superior traders but, I believe, they acquire a feel with a good deal less screen time. Unfortunately I took French One three times in high school and to this day can't order a meal in any language but English. And, while I enjoy music immensely, I have no talent for it. As I write this I can hear the usual suspects gearing up to ask me what proof, what stats,, what whatever I have to back up my claim. I'll save you the trouble -- NONE.

I'm not asking you to believe my supposition, I'm only telling you that I believe it.

Quote from jl1575:

A musician!

I figure that musicians potentially could have a better grasp/understanding/following the price movement, as a music sheet just looks like a stock chart, and the music notes like prices; As the notes ascending, she/he is going to play the keys to the right sides (piano) or hit the right side of the strings, and that is a reaction, an instinct without any further thinking after practice, practice and practice. Furthermore, a musician has a better understanding of ascending and descending concept/phenomenon, as music notes cant' rise or fall all the time, and she/he is expecting for the reversal at the proper time; finally, the transition between the themes is such an essential part of the music and it is interspersed all over the places, so musicians learned/adapted to handle them readily.

 

[NoDoji]

Quote from MarketAddict:

Quick question.. Let's say if price pull back on the 1 min 20 ema and then you get a signal... Are you putting your stop loss right behind your entry 1 min candle or do you have a hard 15 tick stop?

With reference to oil, which I believe we both trade:

In a strong trending move, the 1-min 20EMA should hold as support/resistance. In a strong trend, price rarely gets back to that 20EMA, so I may use a trailing stop to enter the trade. I wouldn't want a stop loss to be too far to the other side of that level; if a technically reasonable stop loss would be more than 13 ticks, I either skip the trade or place a stop loss behind the bar preceding the entry bar.

If a pullback on the 1-min takes price through a previous 5-min bar's high/low (opposite the trend), I don't take a with-trend entry unless the 5-min bar violation is a) weak and, b) runs right into that 1-min rising or falling 20EMA.

Looking at yesterday's down trend into, and from, the pit open, I'm looking to short the pullbacks to the 1-min 20EMA.

The first one occurs around 9:06am ET.

What about 9:15 or 9:21? I wouldn't initiate a new short there because the previous breaks of the LOD were failures. The strong trend is now consolidating. I'm either short from the 9:06 zone and holding, or I've scalped something based on the fbo and am waiting for signs of either more continuation or a reversal.

The 9:15 5-min bar high breaks, but only by a couple ticks. This is a possible bull trap or a possible trend reversal. If that new little high breaks out further, I'll be either on the sideline or looking for a counter-trend long entry for a ride up to the 5-min 20EMA. By 9:30 it looks like an excellent 1-2-3 with-trend continuation setup on the 1-min chart and I'd be short in there without hesitation.

Basically, if I choose to enter with a limit order at the 1-min 20EMA, my stop loss needn't be more than 11 ticks for my scalping style of trading. If price runs through that 20EMA by more than a few ticks I'd likely look to close out break even if the stop isn't hit first.

If I choose to enter by trailing a stop when price gets to or very near the 1-min 20EMA, my stop loss is most likely going to be just outside the bar that precedes my entry, because it should then act as the swing high (or low, in an uptrend) of the next leg in the trend.

 

[NoDoji]

Quote from Swan Noir:

I suspect that those that have a real ear for music and languages have a nice head start in there quest to master discretionary trading. I'm not suggesting it "makes" them superior traders but, I believe, they acquire a feel with a good deal less screen time. Unfortunately I took French One three times in high school and to this day can't order a meal in any language but English. And, while I enjoy music immensely, I have no talent for it. As I write this I can hear the usual suspects gearing up to ask me what proof, what stats,, what whatever I have to back up my claim. I'll save you the trouble -- NONE.

I'm not asking you to believe my supposition, I'm only telling you that I believe it.

I believe learning to read music ends up being a good foundation for intraday scalping because you're conditioned to react immediately to what you see. The difference is that in reading music you're glancing ahead to be prepared for what to do next; in trading you're glancing back. But the ability to translate visual patterns into immediate action is probably very helpful as long you've learned not to think too much. A professional musician doesn't glance ahead, see a particular string of notes and get stuck contemplating which fingerings to use to execute the run. S/he sees that string of notes and knows immediately from past experience the best way to execute.

Similarly, a professional day trader doesn't glance back, see a particular price pattern/environment and get stuck contemplating where and how to enter, where stops should go, what if this, what if that...s/he knows from previous statistical analysis and experience whether to execute and how to manage the trade.

 

[MarketAddict]

Quote from NoDoji:

With reference to oil, which I believe we both trade:

In a strong trending move, the 1-min 20EMA should hold as support/resistance. In a strong trend, price rarely gets back to that 20EMA, so I may use a trailing stop to enter the trade. I wouldn't want a stop loss to be too far to the other side of that level; if a technically reasonable stop loss would be more than 13 ticks, I either skip the trade or place a stop loss behind the bar preceding the entry bar.

If a pullback on the 1-min takes price through a previous 5-min bar's high/low (opposite the trend), I don't take a with-trend entry unless the 5-min bar violation is a) weak and, b) runs right into that 1-min rising or falling 20EMA.

Looking at yesterday's down trend into, and from, the pit open, I'm looking to short the pullbacks to the 1-min 20EMA.

The first one occurs around 9:06am ET.

What about 9:15 or 9:21? I wouldn't initiate a new short there because the previous breaks of the LOD were failures. The strong trend is now consolidating. I'm either short from the 9:06 zone and holding, or I've scalped something based on the fbo and am waiting for signs of either more continuation or a reversal.

The 9:15 5-min bar high breaks, but only by a couple ticks. This is a possible bull trap or a possible trend reversal. If that new little high breaks out further, I'll be either on the sideline or looking for a counter-trend long entry for a ride up to the 5-min 20EMA. By 9:30 it looks like an excellent 1-2-3 with-trend continuation setup on the 1-min chart and I'd be short in there without hesitation.

Basically, if I choose to enter with a limit order at the 1-min 20EMA, my stop loss needn't be more than 11 ticks for my scalping style of trading. If price runs through that 20EMA by more than a few ticks I'd likely look to close out break even if the stop isn't hit first.

If I choose to enter by trailing a stop when price gets to or very near the 1-min 20EMA, my stop loss is most likely going to be just outside the bar that precedes my entry, because it should then act as the swing high (or low, in an uptrend) of the next leg in the trend.

What bar did you go short on the 9:30 1-2-3?

What about the 5 min 20 ema? At 10:30 it held nice support.. You don't take trades off of that off the 1 min chart?

Also, placing a limit right at the 20 ema isn't that dangerous? What do you look for before putting a limit at the 20 ema?

 

[NoDoji]

Quote from MarketAddict:

What bar did you go short on the 9:30 1-2-3?

What about the 5 min 20 ema? At 10:30 it held nice support.. You don't take trades off of that off the 1 min chart?

Also, placing a limit right at the 20 ema isn't that dangerous? What do you look for before putting a limit at the 20 ema?

1. I was short during the 9:31 bar but not the early entry price level of .50 because if the 5-min bar doesn't break downside, it's still a potential trend reversal to the long side. I shorted lower on the break of the 5-min bar.

2. At 10:30 price hadn't yet reached the 5-min 20EMA. Maybe that's a typo on your part. However, at 10:17 price not only broke a 5-min bar upside, it also broke the 1-min 20EMA and closed at it. So as above I wouldn't look at shorting again without a break of a 5-min bar downside. Instead I'm watching for a potential counter-trend long for a visit to the 5-min 20EMA. This sets up when the 1-min 20EMA becomes support off the higher lows, which happens around 10:30.

3. I rarely enter trades by placing a limit order at the 1-min 20EMA in a trend, but that's only my personal preference; it's not any more or less "dangerous" than any other with-trend entry method. In a strong trend "they" got your back, so there's far less danger entering anywhere during a pullback than there is trying to pick a top or bottom and trade against the trend. The "danger" I perceive in waiting for a limit to be filled at the 1-min 20EMA in a strong trend is that it won't get there and you'll watch price simply run without you. We've all been there, waiting for some "safe" way to get in, when in fact all you have to do is jump in as soon as price pulls back 10 or 15 ticks, or just buy/sell the brand new high/low

 

[Swan Noir]

Interesting thread. I would like to read more about the PB to the 1 minute EMA particularly if there are refrences to exact bars of entries.

 

[NoDoji]

Quote from Swan Noir:

Interesting thread. I would like to read more about the PB to the 1 minute EMA particularly if there are refrences to exact bars of entries.

I suggest running your own study of 1-min pullbacks in a strong trending move. There are many ways to do it and I shake it up a little if the R:R for my core entry method isn't acceptable, or if the trend is so strong price is hardly pulling back (little inside bars or triangle after a strong push).

Some ideas for entry are limit orders at the 1-min 20EMA (I rarely do this because despite the better entry price, it has lower odds of success and often price doesn't pull back far enough to let you in there), trailing a stop order once the pullback sets up a certain way (sorry, I'm not going into all my details for defining "certain way", lol); and buying or selling the close of the first valid pullback bar (a bar in the opposite direction of the move that closes above/below the high/low of the last trending 1-min bar).

These methods require different sorts of trade management so the R:R produces net profits over each series of N trades (I like to see profitability out of every three consecutive trades).

 

[Swan Noir]

I wasn't trolling for your "certain way" but rather curious about other threads here on ET. Unlike ES, CL scalps, as we all know can have limited liquidity. Not expecting the fruit of others research just looking for what has already been published.

Quote from NoDoji:

I suggest running your own study of 1-min pullbacks in a strong trending move. There are many ways to do it and I shake it up a little if the R:R for my core entry method isn't acceptable, or if the trend is so strong price is hardly pulling back (little inside bars or triangle after a strong push).

Some ideas for entry are limit orders at the 1-min 20EMA (I rarely do this because despite the better entry price, it has lower odds of success and often price doesn't pull back far enough to let you in there), trailing a stop order once the pullback sets up a certain way (sorry, I'm not going into all my details for defining "certain way", lol); and buying or selling the close of the first valid pullback bar (a bar in the opposite direction of the move that closes above/below the high/low of the last trending 1-min bar).

These methods require different sorts of trade management so the R:R produces net profits over each series of N trades (I like to see profitability out of every three consecutive trades).

 

[bighog]

Quote from Swan Noir:

I wasn't trolling for your "certain way" but rather curious about other threads here on ET. Unlike ES, CL scalps, as we all know can have limited liquidity. Not expecting the fruit of others research just looking for what has already been published.

Fess up!!! You are indeed looking for her "certain way" TOO FUNNY!!!

Even tough guys can learn from chicks...........