livingston's class

very important....when i first get into a trade, i size with my REGULAR INITIATING POSITION, the size is dependant on the liquidity available a well as the volatility of the stock. In some stocks it could be as small as 1k lot and it could go up to 10k, as i trade certain stocks that do 7 or 8 million shares a day. If i do take a large position right of the bat, i wont really be adding. However if i take a smaller position say 2k, and i get confirmation that my entry was right and there is size moving the stock in my direction, i will try to add more.... Generally you dont want to be top heavy...it would be better to build it like a a pyramid...however there are times when the move looks soo good that you just triple your position cause you know its go higher/lower and your average price dose not matter...
As you are trading 100 share lots, i would recommend that you just add anothe 100 share lot, when its looking really good, and the trade is going your way, than when u get comfortable trading 200 shares lots, you can start initiating with 200, and addind 100 when it goes your way....so and so forth....
Quote from trader56:

Hi Livingston,

It appears you answered a question I had about scaling in or pyramiding.
It sounds like this IS something you'll do.

Could you give an example, if you have time, as to how you might evaluate and handle such a situation?
How important is this strategy to your P&L bottom line?

Thanks!
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hey ff...i think my previose thread might answer your first question...
For the second q, when the stock is spread up/down, you can offer/bid out or go market.... but on a regular basis you get screwd by the specialist, iva had experiences where i go market and i get a bad filled or i offer out and he prints through my offer as it not there on time...a lot of it has to do wihthe stock itelf, some stocks spread up say 50 cents, so yo go market, and it will print 5 cents higher, and than take it up....so there is no perfect methodology, usually on a spread i will try to unload some of my position if i think it going further, instead of getting out of my whole position....a good rule would be to just offer out a little less than 40% of the way...for example, if a stock spreds up from the 55.00 to 55.50, offer out 55.19....
yeah i agree with scalpng its hard to become a millionaire, but the whole point of scalping is that you develop a skill set that allows to build capital as well as have a regular source of income....once you have that core competency, it is easier to diversify to more profitable trading methodologies...as you would than have the resources and knowledge to do so... And the income if you are succesful is not bad either, I would say my average all wins and losses would be about 2k a day, more or less..
Quote from FastandFurious:

Hey Livingston-

Right now I'm learning and just being in the market, being in trades, and learn and improve on scalping with 100 lots. How did you transition from doing 100 lots and each one atop? How did you move? 100, then 200? 300? I hear most move in increments of 2s such as 100 to 200, then 400, 600, 800, 1000...

Other thing is that I hear a lot of people will market sell on New York when a huge block is spread up and about to print for price improvement, I assume you do that, and can you give some pointers? Will you always get price improvement as the seller will probably unload all the shares and just sell for a little less if it gets all unloaded.

What do you average net a day? $1000? It seems like with scalping, one can make income but not necessarily get rich. Some people have done scalping and then they did pairs trading and they say they made most of their money doing pairs trading.
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firslty, it seems that you have a law background, are you a lawyer? i have had experience training a lawyer before, probably one of the biggest pains in my ass, but definetly turned out to be one of my favourite trainees....
As far as learning to trade, theres a lot of validity in what all of you have to say on the subject, a lot of trading is dependant on your own abilities... having a trainer for guidance definelty speeds up the process and makes the learning curve easier to deal with.... I would share my own personal experiences starting in this industry but instead i would like to keep this thread positive :)
So to answer your question , I trade and i teach, and some of my trainees have gone on to be very good traders, who will hopefully one day surpass me, as they got a head start in the game, by getting my knowledge earlier on in their careers...
As far as training you or anyone else who approaches me, i make that decision at my discretion...while most places have an open door policy, if you have 5k and a heart beat, they will take you on...i am trying to be more selective so i get a better group of traders.... just as you aproach any other professional opportunity in life, have the same aprroach with this one, pm me with you resume, i will review it, and get back to you ina timely manner....
As far as the level of training is concerned, its been good enough for other to succeed, it should be good enough for you...

Quote from kjkent1:

You people talk about trading like it's black magic. In my experience there is no such thing as magic.

If you want to learn to hit a golf ball well, you have to practice. But, you can't watch your swing, like a pro can. And, a pro can correct you so you don't develop bad habits.

The result is that you learn quicker and more correctly. Will you become Tiger Woods? Doubtful. But can you get to a decent handicap? Absolutely.

I had a business partner who was a scratch golfer, and don't mean that he occasionally shaved his scores. This guy had played golf since he was 10 years old and he could go to any course and play par from the pro tee. He just decided he didn't want to try to get on the tour.

Regardless, the guy could not teach anyone how to golf, because he had no clue how he did what he did.

Some people can play -- some people can teach. Very few can do both. Mr. Livingston asserts that he is a pro. The question is, can he teach or not? And the second question is: will he teach?

If he can trade, and he can teach, and he will teach, then I can learn and I will learn, assuming we can come to an accommodation.

If we can't, no big deal.
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specific enough???

Quote from Thunderdog:

Oh, really? All I saw were vague generalities leading to nowhere in particular. Livingston may or may not be a great trader. He may or may not be a good teacher. Aside from a couple of endorsements from people we have not actually met, there is really no way of knowing from the content of this thread. There is very little of substance here to decide one way or the other. Personally, I'm not that big on making unnecessary or unwarranted assumptions. This is not meant to be an insult to any respondents to this thread. It is only a realistic observation about the thread's content thus far.

kjkent1 was trying to get specific, as anyone who values his money and time would do. The question now is whether Livingston will respond with equal specificity. I'm all "ears."
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I guess some of you are curiose as to why I stared this post...
I started it about a year or so ago, i think as i thought it was funny, and i was bored :) I thought i'd join in, piss off some people who take life too seriosely, and just have fun...it was better than churning ...
I didnt really get back in to the thread till recently, when i started getting messages from people who really wanted to succeed in the market....I decided to take it more seriosely this time round as I felt like i could add value to someone's life while just spending a little time a day, writting a few posts and emails...why not..if it could really help someone else...not long ago i was in the same position as all of you just starting my trading career... Sometimes, it feels good to just help out someone else....dont forget karma...
And it actually seems to be working out well, Ive already got free physical training advice from one of the traders that i have met on this thread, thanks again...
So, im also definetly benefiting....and hopefully you guys benefit from this too... keep up the positive discussions... for those of you have pm'd me and emailed me, i will be getting back to you shortly....
Many traders at my level refuse to teach, as it could impact their profitablity in the market, they dont want to loose focus...a lot of this has to do with the tempermant, and personality of the trader... I have trained dozens of traders and I can assure you all that till date, I do not believe that there has been a negative impact on my p/l, and at times its actually helpful when you are teaching someone as it reinforces the basics...

Quote from kjkent1:

I understand your point, but it doesn't coport with the facts, because livingston has started this thread, and if his info is good, then that puts his earnings at risk for the same reason as he would were he to teach someone personally.

So, if I accept your position, that it would be a risk for him to help in any material way, then the question becomes: why this thread?

The possibilities:

1. He's bored.
2. He wants to misinform and thereby increase his earning capacity.
3. He's feeling altrusitic in his old age and actually wants to help.
4. He has more money than he knows what to do with, so he doesn't care about risking his earnings.
5. He doesn't believe that most people can trade on his advice even if he were to hold their hand and walk them through the process, so he doesn't see any risk in distributing info.
6. He's trolling for people to join his prop firm, so he can try to beat them in the market, or because it increases the firm's volume of business and reduces his average cost per share overhead, or because maybe one of them will make a lot of dough and he will earn a rake on their commissions.

The list goes on...

In the end, none of this matters to me. I'm very nuts and bolts. Livingston says he's an expert, others concur. I'm looking to learn from an expert. If he wants to train me, then he will make me a reasonable offer. If he doesn't, then he won't.
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A public thanks once again, Livingston.

There ARE LOTS of very specific comments on strategy and starting out with equities.

I've been a part of ET since 2002, and can say that this is one of the most productive, informative threads I've read so far.

We've learned about:
Scaling/pyramiding
Starting out
Building up size
Things to look for (especially with these notes!)
Various strategies
The importance of the OpenBook, SAI, and ERCO
How the prop shops work

I'm sure I've missed things here, but just go back and read the stuff people like Livingston, and FF have discussed! Let's keep it going, and avoid the bickering and hijacking that so many threads succumb to.
 
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