I have no doubts, banks are not interested in good grounded common sense or experience, they are interested in how many letters you have after your name. Then again they have clients that are expecting some "quantifiable professionalism". When I worked for a big bank, I could not believe how such smart guys could come up with so poor results at building a fund of hedge funds. I have no idea what planet they lived on but it didnt make any sense...
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List of Montreal Props?
- Thread starter VielGeld
- Start date
I have no doubts, banks are not interested in good grounded common sense or experience, they are interested in how many letters you have after your name. Then again they have clients that are expecting some "quantifiable professionalism". When I worked for a big bank, I could not believe how such smart guys could come up with so poor results at building a fund of hedge funds. I have no idea what planet they lived on but it didnt make any sense...
tradingmanuals
Guest
The guys who take home 2-5 million are the local traders. Local traders trade their own money and have no restrictions on type of securities or risk they take and if they make 2-5 million, they typically have 2 milion of their own capital on the table at 'risk'. If you work for bank, you can't trade or take risk like 50/50 risk. You'll get fired from the bank if you lose even 10% of capital. For locals that is drawdown. Employees don't have drawdowns that is the difference between working for a bank and local traders. There aren't that many clients with more than $300,000 or cash capital in the market on the table.
So the people you are referring to making 2-5 million is 'pipe' dream for most beginning traders. Typically, to get 2-5 million in trading capital, a person would raise the funds from clients as an investment advisor. Warrent Buffet started his career as an investment advisor. In this 'industry' the money is in trading or investing with other people's money and you do need professional credentials like license investment advisor etc.
Seriously, if you can get a job paying $150,000 plus $200,000 bonus, t ake the job. With those jobs, the company has a trading system for the trader and your job is just to make sure the system doesn't fail or just execute the company trading system
Professional don't spend two months bumming around in the summer. So your comments are not professional but local traders.
So the people you are referring to making 2-5 million is 'pipe' dream for most beginning traders. Typically, to get 2-5 million in trading capital, a person would raise the funds from clients as an investment advisor. Warrent Buffet started his career as an investment advisor. In this 'industry' the money is in trading or investing with other people's money and you do need professional credentials like license investment advisor etc.
Seriously, if you can get a job paying $150,000 plus $200,000 bonus, t ake the job. With those jobs, the company has a trading system for the trader and your job is just to make sure the system doesn't fail or just execute the company trading system
Professional don't spend two months bumming around in the summer. So your comments are not professional but local traders.
Quote from Maverick74:
It's the same here in terms of competitiveness. Only now with Dodd Frank, banks can no longer have internal hedge funds. And on top of that, most of our banks here got rid of their prop desks entirely.
Having said that, I lived in NY for two years and worked for what most people thought at the time was a bucket shop at 110 Wall Street. That was because the guys with the real resumes were at Goldman and JP Morgan. What those guys didn't know, was the people sitting around me were taking home 3 to 5 million a year. And those bankers sitting on a desk trading were making 150k base plus maybe 250k to 500k bonus. They also worked 80 hours a week, the guys at my firm worked about 50. The bank guys had 2 weeks vacation a year. The guys at my firm would take off the entire summer to bum around Europe. Trust me, the the bank is not the way to go.
Quote from tradingmanuals:
The guys who take home 2-5 million are the local traders. Local traders trade their own money and have no restrictions on type of securities or risk they take and if they make 2-5 million, they typically have 2 milion of their own capital on the table at 'risk'. If you work for bank, you can't trade or take risk like 50/50 risk. You'll get fired from the bank if you lose even 10% of capital. For locals that is drawdown. Employees don't have drawdowns that is the difference between working for a bank and local traders. There aren't that many clients with more than $300,000 or cash capital in the market on the table.
So the people you are referring to making 2-5 million is 'pipe' dream for most beginning traders. Typically, to get 2-5 million in trading capital, a person would raise the funds from clients as an investment advisor. Warrent Buffet started his career as an investment advisor. In this 'industry' the money is in trading or investing with other people's money and you do need professional credentials like license investment advisor etc.
Seriously, if you can get a job paying $150,000 plus $200,000 bonus, t ake the job. With those jobs, the company has a trading system for the trader and your job is just to make sure the system doesn't fail or just execute the company trading system
Professional don't spend two months bumming around in the summer. So your comments are not professional but local traders.
Wrong yet again. The firm I was referring to was Worldco Trading. Most the guys put up zero capital. They made some guys put up 10k to 15k. It was a bullshit system in a way. If you went to an ivy league school, you didn't have to put up any money. If you didn't, they made you put up 10k to 15k. And oh yes, they let you draw down in your account. Many guys were 50k to 100k in debit at one point.
They also made you keep 35k in a deferment account once you were profitable. But that was it, 35k.
And for the record, most bank traders are not "traders", they are liquidity providers if you want to get technical. You know what the problem with that is? Once the bank fired them, not a one of them could trade on their own. I know, we use to get a lot of them at my firm trying to trade. Most of them blew out.
tradingmanuals
Guest
And maverick, I noticed your in this site 24/7.
The only reason I'm reply to your comments is you think my comments or opinions are wrong. I have no reason to lie or exaggerate anything. My comments are just that my observations of the trading industry or trading as career. Has anyone applied to any of the trading jobs you listed and did anyone get hire?
What do you do for a living?
Because a large bank or large hedg funds has their own system that many local traders can't trade like the bank or HFT systems or hedge funds. The banks don't even trade stocks in their prop desk because the money is too small not even worth their time to trade it.
QUOTE]Quote from Maverick74:
Wrong yet again. The firm I was referring to was Worldco Trading. Most the guys put up zero capital. They made some guys put up 10k to 15k. It was a bullshit system in a way. If you went to an ivy league school, you didn't have to put up any money. If you didn't, they made you put up 10k to 15k. And oh yes, they let you draw down in your account. Many guys were 50k to 100k in debit at one point.
They also made you keep 35k in a deferment account once you were profitable. But that was it, 35k.
And for the record, most bank traders are not "traders", they are liquidity providers if you want to get technical. You know what the problem with that is? Once the bank fired them, not a one of them could trade on their own. I know, we use to get a lot of them at my firm trying to trade. Most of them blew out. [/QUOTE]
The only reason I'm reply to your comments is you think my comments or opinions are wrong. I have no reason to lie or exaggerate anything. My comments are just that my observations of the trading industry or trading as career. Has anyone applied to any of the trading jobs you listed and did anyone get hire?
What do you do for a living?
Because a large bank or large hedg funds has their own system that many local traders can't trade like the bank or HFT systems or hedge funds. The banks don't even trade stocks in their prop desk because the money is too small not even worth their time to trade it.
QUOTE]Quote from Maverick74:
Wrong yet again. The firm I was referring to was Worldco Trading. Most the guys put up zero capital. They made some guys put up 10k to 15k. It was a bullshit system in a way. If you went to an ivy league school, you didn't have to put up any money. If you didn't, they made you put up 10k to 15k. And oh yes, they let you draw down in your account. Many guys were 50k to 100k in debit at one point.
They also made you keep 35k in a deferment account once you were profitable. But that was it, 35k.
And for the record, most bank traders are not "traders", they are liquidity providers if you want to get technical. You know what the problem with that is? Once the bank fired them, not a one of them could trade on their own. I know, we use to get a lot of them at my firm trying to trade. Most of them blew out. [/QUOTE]
I agree with Maverick almost 100%. Just my 2 cents. Those that claim the prop firms don't take on risk by providing a trader 20:1 or more leverage is a ridiculous notion. The firm's capital is at risk. They offer a service to professional independent traders.
Quote from Maverick74:
And for the record, most bank traders are not "traders", they are liquidity providers if you want to get technical. You know what the problem with that is? Once the bank fired them, not a one of them could trade on their own. I know, we use to get a lot of them at my firm trying to trade. Most of them blew out.
Discretionary trading is not the same as trading for a company. Your job in the case of being an employee is to complete the task.
prop-trading is for trading independent strategies.
They are two very different type of businesses.
tradingmanuals
Guest
It's mostly daytrading, very small amout of capital is at risk. It's when you take positions overnight that the exchange wants payment. If you end the day flat, no money is transferred. All the transactions are cleared at end of the day.
That is the reason prop traders only daytrade, they take advantage of intra-day leverage.
That is the reason prop traders only daytrade, they take advantage of intra-day leverage.
Quote from EvOTraderV2:
I agree with Maverick almost 100%. Just my 2 cents. Those that claim the prop firms don't take on risk by providing a trader 20:1 or more leverage is a ridiculous notion. The firm's capital is at risk. They offer a service to professional independent traders.
[/QUOTE]Quote from tradingmanuals:
And maverick, I noticed your in this site 24/7.
What do you do for a living?
Because a large bank or large hedg funds has their own system that many local traders can't trade like the bank. they don't trade stocks.
QUOTE]Quote from Maverick74:
Wrong yet again. The firm I was referring to was Worldco Trading. Most the guys put up zero capital. They made some guys put up 10k to 15k. It was a bullshit system in a way. If you went to an ivy league school, you didn't have to put up any money. If you didn't, they made you put up 10k to 15k. And oh yes, they let you draw down in your account. Many guys were 50k to 100k in debit at one point.
They also made you keep 35k in a deferment account once you were profitable. But that was it, 35k.
And for the record, most bank traders are not "traders", they are liquidity providers if you want to get technical. You know what the problem with that is? Once the bank fired them, not a one of them could trade on their own. I know, we use to get a lot of them at my firm trying to trade. Most of them blew out.
OK, I just figured it out. You are 19 years old and you know absolutely nothing about this business. Any guy that thinks banks have a system obviously are still in that bushy tail wide eyed phase of trading. Banks don't have a system. They are order flow providers. That's it. that's what they do. They don't have a magical system. You know how I know. because when they leave the banks and come trade prop, almost none of them make money!!!! Where is their magical system? Oh, let me guess, the majic goes away when they take their tie off and step outside the bank. Listen, I'm not trying to give you a hard time, you have provided a lot of humor on this thread. I think most the traders around here know you are a college kid with dreams of making it big somewhere some day. And that's fine. I wish you well. But you really need to learn about this business. What do I do? I've been an independent trader for 16 years.
tradingmanuals
Guest
I'm in my late 30s. I'm not wided eyed "niave" 19 year old just out of high school.
I took my securities exam when I was 25 years old.
OK, I just figured it out. You are 19 years old and you know absolutely nothing about this business. Any guy that thinks banks have a system obviously are still in that bushy tail wide eyed phase of trading. Banks don't have a system. They are order flow providers. That's it. that's what they do. They don't have a magical system. You know how I know. because when they leave the banks and come trade prop, almost none of them make money!!!! Where is their magical system? Oh, let me guess, the majic goes away when they take their tie off and step outside the bank. Listen, I'm not trying to give you a hard time, you have provided a lot of humor on this thread. I think most the traders around here know you are a college kid with dreams of making it big somewhere some day. And that's fine. I wish you well. But you really need to learn about this business. What do I do? I've been an independent trader for 16 years. [/B][/QUOTE]
I took my securities exam when I was 25 years old.
Quote from Maverick74:
OK, I just figured it out. You are 19 years old and you know absolutely nothing about this business. Any guy that thinks banks have a system obviously are still in that bushy tail wide eyed phase of trading. Banks don't have a system. They are order flow providers. That's it. that's what they do. They don't have a magical system. You know how I know. because when they leave the banks and come trade prop, almost none of them make money!!!! Where is their magical system? Oh, let me guess, the majic goes away when they take their tie off and step outside the bank. Listen, I'm not trying to give you a hard time, you have provided a lot of humor on this thread. I think most the traders around here know you are a college kid with dreams of making it big somewhere some day. And that's fine. I wish you well. But you really need to learn about this business. What do I do? I've been an independent trader for 16 years. [/B][/QUOTE]
Quote from tradingmanuals:
It's mostly daytrading, very small amout of capital is at risk. It's when you take positions overnight that the exchange wants payment. If you end the day flat, no money is transferred. All the transactions are cleared at end of the day.
That is the reason prop traders only daytrade, they take advantage of intra-day leverage.
False again. A lot of prop firms hold overnight positions. Just ask Don Bright. And many of these prop firms trade options and stock as well and all hold over night positions. And yes, you need capital to trade intra-day. Where the hell does that statement come from? LOL. Who are these clearing firms that are granting millions in exposure with no capital. LOL. Oh dear, this shit is good.