Quote from a_person:
1. I am glad you backtracked on yet another one of your promises to post multiple examples of US violations of international law in the Middle East prior to 9/11.
Again you assign me opinions that are easier for you to refute in order to have anything to say at all. I never promised anything about international law, i promised that I would explain to you what the US have been doing to middle eastern people that, if done to americans, or any other people in the world for that matter, would provoke similar reactions. So far I've only covered the people of the Southern Levant, although the whole thing with Jerusalem being given away from Muslims to invaders by the international community (including the US) has been reason enough to upset many Muslims around the world.
Quote from a_person:
2. I am not going to discuss Israel's policies in this thread.
Of course you're not. As I said earlier, you cannot do that without either admitting some rather ugly stuff or throw reason and logic out the window. Now, whether the transfer plan of the Arabs was planned and executed by Zionist top leaders or not would be something we really could discuss; that's a subject with some wiggling room. Whether the expulsion took place however, is an irrefutable truth that virtually all scholars agree upon because of the heavy documentation - and the simple fact that Palestinians where there at one point in history, and not in another.
Quote from a_person:
This thread was about muslim inventions and you turned it into a discussion about the US policies. Your desperate attempts to now turn it into a discussion of Israel's policies is an obvious red-herring. If you want to discuss Israel's policies - start a new thread and if you learn to be pithy (O'Reilly's favorite word), perhaps I will participate.
This thread is not about a sincere interest in Muslim inventions, it's about claiming that Muslims are savages and barbarians. The only way I know how to refute that is by explaining why some Muslims are angry and that Americans in their place would react in a similar way.
But hey, if you're honest about debating it if I simply copy and paste the claims I've done into a new thread, I can do that too.
Quote from a_person:
3. Regarding The US, Middle East and terrorism: we know that you, Osama and muslim fanatics (in no particular order) disagree with our policies. Guess what, that's too bad. Your, Osama's and the Arab street's disapproval does not make our policies any less viable, moral or legitimate. It's the American (not arab) street that determines the policies of the United State of America. All of you have every right to criticize our policies, whine about them on the internet or use any other peaceful and civilized means to make us change our policies. There are no guarantees of course. I can promise that we will listen to you if you present your case in a civilized manner but we may still disagree with you.
You don't represent America. There's no "we" here, only you. I'm asking you to explain to me what you would do if somebody came and stole your land and how you would feel about those who financed and supported those invaders. I want you to answer this question on behalf of yourself, not America. Because I don't see you as an average American; most Americans I've talked to are not religious fanatics like yourself. When they study the history and understand the reality of a situation, they're rational about it, they don't use every trick in the book in order to change it to fit their distorted views like you do.
Quote from a_person:
What you don't have any right to do is murder our civilians (and military personnel either) just because you disagree with our policies that are completely within the norms of international law and standard practices. It's as simple as that.
I don't represent the people who attack Americans and I certainly don't support them. I'm simply telling you that pushing people this way WILL provoke attacks no matter what god they pray to. If the US supported for instance the Sames up here - if you gave them guns, intel, advice and your blessings in removing my people and establishing their own state over my land, while blocking every attempt to bring justice by the international community, I assure you I would have some problems with the US. I would never attack civilians, but I'm sure a portion of my some million fellow citizens would be crazy enough. It's got nothing to do with religion, it's humanity.
Quote from a_person:
I am angry at the entire muslim world for their unconditional support of the Palestinians.
Even though you know absolutely nothing about the situation. It's a good thing you don't react on that anger; God does not appreciate ignorance.
Quote from a_person:
But it's only muslim fanatics who pillage, riot, murder, behead, kidnap innocent civilians when they are angry at legitimate policies of sovereign states.
Wrong. First of all, an estimate of more than a billion people of the people on this planet are Muslims. This means that when you do something that gets to a very large part of them, it is inevitable that a very small portion (even hundreds of thousands are a very small portion when talking about large numbers like this), will react in virtually every way imaginable. This is how humanity has always been; some people are screwed up, some people are capable of doing the worst things imaginable to fellow humans even for petty things like drawings (although nobody got beheaded for the cartoons, it could well have happened). And seccond, kidnappings of innocent people, murdering of civilians, beheadings, riots and pillaging are happening all over the world all the time amongst all peoples. It's just not as hot news when a Russian group beheads a Muslim for being Muslim as it is when a Muslim group beheads a Russian. The worlds eye is directed at the Islamic world in general and Islamic radicalism in particular these days, and so it is only natural that the weakest of us are fooled into believing something is a norm when it's actually not. The reality is, most Muslims are like these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbcmPe0z3Sc
Muslims who are peaceful are extremely boring as you can see. Why would the evening news do a report on them every night?
Quote from a_person:
And it's only complete idiots like you who try to explain and justify their actions by the fact that they are angry at the Great and Little Satan. This is no excuse.
The fact that you seem to think I'm trying to justify anything, indicates that you think getting raped, tortured, massacred and expelled from your land, and then getting raped, tortured and murdered once more in your refugee camps, would justify killing innocent people. It does not for me; hurting an innocent person is very wrong no matter what you've been through. I'm beginning to understand you now, this mentality explains why you don't have a bigger problem with your government murdering some 30-40 000 innocent Iraqis in response to 911. You're as sick as the terrorists, and if you didn't have a government that killed all these innocent people for you, you probably would have blown up yourself you sick fuck.
Quote from a_person:
your claims that we do 99% of the killing fell apart under minimal scrutiny.
No it didn't, it is still standing; read my last post. I challenged you to provide the numbers that makes the estimate fall apart. Bring it.
