Liquid options with low spread

You exclude US nationals from inception with your dramatically-inferior strategy. In your defense it's not as dumb as the guts strangle you had proposed.

The box/roll requirement is a few hundred dollars per contract on 1256 indices... you're moronically suggesting futures switches (calendar spreads) with variation margin and adding risk to the system.

The roll is cheap, a pure arb, and is complex enough to be missed. Yours requires a far larger haircut, risk, and is stupefyingly dumb.
 
You exclude US nationals from inception with your dramatically-inferior strategy. In your defense it's not as dumb as the guts strangle you had proposed.

The box/roll requirement is a few hundred dollars per contract on 1256 indices... you're moronically suggesting futures switches (calendar spreads) with variation margin and adding risk to the system.

The roll is cheap, a pure arb, and is complex enough to be missed. Yours requires a far larger haircut, risk, and is stupefyingly dumb.

ok, we get it. You are the only one smart over here, in this angle of the planet.

Ok, continue to dispense your superior intelligence and greatness to the poor mortals of this thread.

You are really a pleasant person to hang with!

PS
I did not propose any strangle! That was carried by the OP. I was criticizing it.
You really have a retardation and comprehension problem. I advise you to get some professional help.
 
Dude, he’s not going to fck you. He’s trading purely for tax avoidance. The two week series does nothing for him. Whoosh.

You’re in the BOX, BRO. You’re long(short) the guts and short(long) the outside strangle. Trading the inside strangle against the equivalent (risk) outside is long at x and short at y (long box) but does nothing for this dude unless you make it a term structure trade. Fucking brilliant but you need to be in the rolls, not the short term box.

You did. You ran with his BS and then proposed a two week structure.

I do have a problem with retards. You have no fucking clue what tax jurisdictions aggregate futures PNL and worse, your trade has risk and is inefficient on margin.

Statist could trade a few thousand rolls with a mil, have overhead for a ton of other vol-positions, and realize a sizable tax loss while taking zero risk on the structure with the roll-arb.
 
I will let you in on a secret. I was perusing your thread as it came up on recent posts. I saw overnight's catch of your 120K typo. I thought it was odd so I checked your front end and saw DU. You're a fraud posting sim-BS and worse, you don't understand vol-products.

You imply you've been at this for decades. The fact that you don't understand basic arb-structures means that you've been wasting your time for decades.
 
Statist --- you can trade a ten lot SPX roll with zero risk and declare a six figure tax loss. It's that leveraged... the roll is best practice. The other structures are just stupid.
 
Well, frankly, I have difficulty making sense of what I read.

It may be in part related to the fact that this is not my native language.

I will answer only a few things that I understood (about 40% of the post, and nothing of the "logic"), while for the rest, I collect below what I have not grasped.

So far I have understood you are working on some (legal) trading scheme for tax reduction which involves 2 accounting places. One "tax jurisdiction" (where you need to pay taxes) and, say, "Panama".

The general idea should be that there will be "created" apparent losses in the "tax jurisdiction", while they are compensated (for the same individual) by corresponding profits in another place, say "Panama".

So - ideally - the trading activity should give zero PnL overall, while the "losses" which will appear in the "tax jurisdiction" are, then, used to reduce the taxes paid by the individual, on profits coming from other activities.

right so far?

> I must not be exercised or everything goes up in smoke (tax and risk wise)
SPX is cash-settled. No early exercise:
https://www.tastytrade.com/definitions/cash-settled#:~:text=The SPX index is cash,this index expires to cash.

[It would also be good to know why it is necessary, for the scheme to work, the use of the short options alone (which seems mandatory from what I read above), and not other instruments. How are the trades accounted for: are you using only the realized? What is the "lot-matching" method, are you using fifo, specific lot ?
https://guides.interactivebrokers.com/ibto/ibto/lotmatchingmethods.htm]

> Any other risks?
The overall "cost" of the options structure (the max final payoff of each strangle is going to be negative of a few Ks, like around -5K). Spread. Liquidity issues, scattered quotes, difficulty of execution in case of deep ITM (may resort to using futures + OTM option for remaining delta 100, using put-call parity, but it becomes a mess).

[In practice, not viable at all IMHO with ITM options: in case, if it makes sense, might consider OTM for easier execution, lower margins, and smaller spread. In any case, it may be often difficult to sell at extreme distances from the current underlying price: you will need to reduce the "flat" range of your payoff.]

Possibly flawed "logic": I have not clearly understood the idea so far.

Also, $$$ is tied in high margins (which are also continuously varying with the underlying price and, possibly, broker policy changes). Almost $70-80K just to maintain the strangle.
https://sensainvestments.com/options-margin-requirements/

_________________________________

what I did not understand:

Are we talking about 1 or 2 accounts? Are the 2 options both in 1 account? Or 1 leg in each of 2 distinct accounts, or 2 legs replicated in 2 accounts? Are the trades separated in time or space? What is the timing and place of the trades? Is the trading individual stationary in one place, or moving from one jurisdiction to another in time during the trading activity? What is the accounting method and order matching criterion?
(In general, I am not getting the "logic" and mechanism and why it should work)

>Market moves 2% Down
>BUY/CLOSE SPX PUT (Profit realised)


What profit? If the underlying price goes down you get a loss on the short put. Also, in any case, why are you talking of "realised profits"? Was it not the goal to realize losses in the "tax jurisdiction"?

> BUY CLOSE Put and CALL
When/where? are we talking of the same time? Same account?

> No rolling over needed if options run long enough (2 weeks to 4 months)
?

You need to provide a practical example with all details (with timestamps and places of executions and detailed accounting methods and order matching), or else it remains not really understandable. (In any case, as trading is concerned, IMHO it is not going to be practically viable with those far-away ITM options.)


This is what the, temporally closest (expiry: 20230316), SPX CALL 2000 (50% itm) looks like at this time of the day (9.42ET): around $250-280 (or more) spread, and about $39.8K margins for 1 short (double for the short strangle):

View attachment 300346
SPX OPT 20230316 2000 C CBOE S&P 500 Stock Index [SPX 230317C02000000, 531885043, mult: 100]

Venturing to work with this "monster", is probably asking for it :)

(Especially while there are other more comfortable ways to print $$$, and pay as little tax as possible, with negligible risk.)

Thank you for your post!

Pls just accept the tax situation as a given, it is the law in the tax jurisdiction, nothing to argue about neither from you nor me.

Future would be perfect to my understanding with very low spreads if it would work tax wise. Stated several times futures are not working on the tax side due to them being treated differently. There are some tax benefits to tax harvesting on the future side but they are limited. I will to some futures trading as well but limited.

I have given a clear cut simple expample. Stated that the movement to the other tax jurisdiction is on the time horizon i.e. moving from Panama to tax jurisdiction at a a given time. All Legs will be in the same account at IB in the US (account location).

When I talk about realized profit it is a realized profit in a tax sense not in a portfolio sense.

So i ask the question again which underlying should I choose, SPX I will look at. What about oil , currencies, interest rates, Nasdaq Options. I am looking for options that allow SELLING way out of OTM options. I will sell some calls on the stocks I have sold short and close the short stock position.

Thanks again much obliged!
 
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Whatever method is used, ranging from synthetic forward, as proposed, to more simply rolling forever "parallel" futures, in purely abstract terms, one will just be executing orders on 2 "legs".


[Of course, it works on the paper until some tax officers, more astute than others, will start wondering how can it be that one reports millions in losses in an account where the net balance, net of possible withdrawals, shows little or no loss at all :). (But I guess one could use two or more accounts...)]

Thanks for your post! I am always open for errors in my doings!

The tax officer will see an account with REALIZED losses in year x+1, he will not see year x at all while in Panama. X+1 is the year moving to tax jurisdiction. He will see a yearly p&L report which starts at the beginning of the year. He does not see any unrealized changes during x+1 nor does he see the total amount in the account at year end. Again you are assuming I am in the US and must show the value of the portfolio at years end. Transaction reports are being used for the tax declaration so no overall value shows.

Apparently you are stuck too much in your local tax mind, no offense and no irony here. Thanks!
 
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