LINUX goes GLOBAL

I don't want to be locked into Borland because it may not be there tomorrow. That is not going to happen to MSFT.

As far as Linux stuff is concerned, I know that in fact complex systems have come up in it, so it can't be impossible. I just find the lack of an integrated professional GUI debugger a real pain in the ass.

People bash MSFT stuff all the time. All I know is that I have written millions of lines of code that run like a bat out of hell using Windows products and whenever something is not documented well, I do what the Open Source people do, I go on the forums and ask.

nitro
Quote from nononsense:

Hi nitro,

Your statement is far too general and also shows IMHO personal fear of looking at unfamiliar things.

As you know, I practically do 99+% of my development in python now. I'm using eric for IDE. Runs on anything, even M$. As you may know this is based on Qt which I use as framework. It can also be used in C/C++. In fact Qt is C ++ based. Anytime I look for a new package in linux, Qt keeps popping up in those that work best! As a long, long time M$ Visual victim, I can tell you there is simply no comparison between M$ stuff and mine. Sloppy documentation with M$ everywhere, never any real help from M$ with problems. In fact, over the years, I have the feeling I helped them more with bugs than they ever helped me. I said, enough is enough. Can't understand how you can write the above. Anyhow, I respect your preference.

C++ development with linux is very smooth too. It suffices to read the commentaries in the newsgroups about compilation problems of major packages. Mostly you have a choice of some 3 or 4 compilers. It always seems to be the Visual stuff that people complain about (before or after .NET).
You have ample choice in well seasoned IDE environments, including Borland which is PRETTY GOOD BTW. I can't understand why you can say that you don't want to be ' locked in' by Borland. It seems they got you pretty locked in right now.

Be good,
nononsense
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Quote from nononsense:
...I'm using eric for IDE.
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Probs I have with Eric3 is the only help docs are api generated, which is kinda useless for a ui. The other thing is, I love my auto completion and call tips.. gotta have it for "natural naming" schema. Eric only has (for python) a user's contribution that seg faults when I compile it. Too bad cause I want to use eric.. I'm using a combo of drpython ide and pyalamode prompt for now. The dr's ok for python. It too is highly configurable with plugins and user's scripts. less bloat.
 
Quote from ktmexc20:

Really. Huh... gentoo's not kickin on your hw anymore?
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Yeah ktmexc,

I kind of explained already. I got two new notebooks as of late. Getting EVERYTHING to work used to be impossible, also with Gentoo. (of course you have identical problems with XP if it wouldn't be that notebooks come with XP preinstalled. If you try to reinstall from scratch yourself, you also run into problems)\

I switched to SuSE 9.3 right know for entirely practical reasons. I can run it WITHOUT HASSLE on anything in my stable. In fact the latest distro's have improved tremendously for notebook & workstation. Ubuntu wasn't bad either, it almost did it right on my notebooks too. Many other distro's even made the whole thing crash if you pushed the fan control button.

This is the nice thing about linux. Once you get the hang of it, switching distro's is peanuts compared to escaping from the M$ dungeon.

I almost forgot, as a python convert, eric3 installs without any problem under SuSE 9.3. You don't have to bother with PyQt, Sip & Qscintilla. It's all there. I couldn't believe it. Went like a piece of cake! You have only to add some additional Qt options in Yast.

Be good,
nononsense
 
Quote from ktmexc20:

Probs I have with Eric3 is the only help docs are api generated, which is kinda useless for a ui. The other thing is, I love my auto completion and call tips.. gotta have it for "natural naming" schema. Eric only has (for python) a user's contribution that seg faults when I compile it. Too bad cause I want to use eric.. I'm using a combo of drpython ide and pyalamode prompt for now. The dr's ok for python. It too is highly configurable with plugins and user's scripts. less bloat.
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True, help docs could be better. (Remember the days of M$ docs?) Don't forget that we are in the ' free' bracket though. I suppose you get something decent if you pay for it.
There is also the PyQt doc question. BlackAdder used to have a specific doc package for PyQt. However, I got used to the Qt docs. These are superb. They are for C++ of course, but once you got the hang of it, getting what you need for python becomes trivial. Way better than BlackAdder's I believe.

I never cared much for the autocompletion eric stuff. I must say that funny enough, setting up eric & Co is more difficult under many linux distro's than windows. You need to get the windows Qt somehow. Under gentoo, this was kind of an exception because you found everything in their packages. With SuSE right now, it became even easier.

My bottom line: no comparison between drpython and eric!
 
Quote from nononsense:

True, help docs could be better. (Remember the days of M$ docs?) Don't forget that we are in the ' free' bracket though. I suppose you get something decent if you pay for it.

This is true, the essence of OpenSource is community contribution (kinda reminds me of the grateful dead's community, back in the day, lol).

Sometimes the prob with some lib/progs, are there's a core of developers for an awesome app, and very few consumers who lend a hand in it's improvement or upkeep. I only wish I knew more, cause I really want to contribute.

In fact I'm actually getting my feet wet with pytables. I made a couple of syntax/semantic suggestions the devs liked, and they suggested if I could help supply the patches and doc inserts. Welllll ok. I'm working at it now.

My bottom line: no comparison between drpython and eric!

Oh yeah, absolutely no comparison. but I'm lazy w/ the need for code completion.
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Quote from ktmexc20:

I was taking a quick look at Kdeveloper last night. Looks pretty robust for C/C++,etc dev. CVS and other stuff all configurable, going through (360+) plugins. Lessens the bloat of what you don't need. The only caveat I think, is you need to be using a kde desk top manager. But hey, kde's better than gnome anyway, imo.
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This is a viable development product ... as is the Glade analogue for Gnome.

I developed software long before we had these very nice IDE's and we were able to get everything engineered and tested properly then .... and even without $soft or Borlands nice IDE's we can still put together superior software without breaking the bank - the difference in time saved is not as great as everyone blabs about if you have able engineers who know what they are doing .....

At the end of the day its all about the quality and cost of product development that matters, not what IDE you used ....
 
Quote from prt_systems:

This is a viable development product ... as is the Glade analogue for Gnome.

I developed software long before we had these very nice IDE's and we were able to get everything engineered and tested properly then .... and even without $soft or Borlands nice IDE's we can still put together superior software without breaking the bank - the difference in time saved is not as great as everyone blabs about if you have able engineers who know what they are doing .....

At the end of the day its all about the quality and cost of product development that matters, not what IDE you used ....
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Well,

Back in the good old days, when men were men, we used to write code only with 1's and didn't use the 0's. We were able to get alot done back then even without the use of those pesky zeroes, but we were capable engineers and we enjoyed not using the zeroes because we wanted to be real men.

Heck, I even remember how much work we got done with punchcards (who needs editors? it's about competent engineers you know!), we even put men on the moon and could blast the Soviet Union to smithereens with the trajectories that could be computed with those punch cards!

Aaaah, the good old days when men were men and we had some real competent engineers...

nitro
 
Quote from nitro:

Well,

Back in the good old days, when men were men, we used to write code only with 1's and didn't use the 0's. We were able to get alot done back then even without the use of those pesky zeroes, but we were capable engineers and we enjoyed not using the zeroes because we wanted to be real men.

Heck, I even remember how much work we got done with punchcards (who needs editors? it's about competent engineers you know!), we even put men on the moon and could blast the Soviet Union to smithereens with the trajectories that could be computed with those punch cards!

Aaaah, the good old days when men were men and we had some real competent engineers...

nitro
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Yes nitro,

However those 'men' who 'were men' made wonderful progress. Going from binary coding to assembler. Writing compilers like Fortran & Cobol. The Bell guys making 'porting' practical with their C compilers. Skipping a bunch of kiddy stuff, a guy called Guido Van Rossum making Python.

Today, some real 'men' go and live like hermits up North. I guess you could do the same if you still could find cards and a cardpunch. Can't argue with your point, as long as you make real money in the markets with it. Otherwise you shouldn't be at ET's.

Be good,
nononsense
 
Quote from nitro:

Well,



Aaaah, the good old days when men were men and we had some real competent engineers...

nitro
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and today as well .... heck even young wippersnappers can learn C++ - and other modern open languages and tools - and how to engineer reusable code that is valuable .....

Funny how that can occur without $soft, $racle, $bm and other big name companies huh ?

Of course, some people believe that they will lose their jobs if they dont move in goosestep with $soft and others .....

perhaps if people actually tested the technologies rather than parrot the marketing lines from these vendors they could be enjoying better returns in their companies ... but hey, steve ballmer needs his next yacht and business jet funded ...
 
Linux is a modern wonder that has made all aspects of the world a better place.

I just want a freaking GUI based professional debugger with a simple integrated powerful programming editor. That's all.

nitro
Quote from prt_systems:

and today as well .... heck even young wippersnappers can learn C++ - and other modern open languages and tools - and how to engineer reusable code that is valuable .....

Funny how that can occur without $soft, $racle, $bm and other big name companies huh ?

Of course, some people believe that they will lose their jobs if they dont move in goosestep with $soft and others .....

perhaps if people actually tested the technologies rather than parrot the marketing lines from these vendors they could be enjoying better returns in their companies ... but hey, steve ballmer needs his next yacht and business jet funded ...
More...
 
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