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Limit Orders Direct Market vs Retail Broker
- Thread starter Rookie86
- Start date
SchwabWhich brokerage are you using?
As I stated earlier this may not be anything nefarious on Schwabs part, just an effect of how they routed the order.Schwab
A question for you about Schwab, I've been looking at transferring some trading money to Schwab to try to get some trading cost down but concern for me is really more the stability of the platform and the lag on recieving confirmation of fills, especially on mkt orders back to the platform (etrade pro for example is atrocious). How long have you been there? How happy are you in general with SSE performance especially near mkt open/close?
Was the sell limit "all or none"? If it was, it probably won't get picked off. When I am on the buy side, if I do an all or none, many times it won't get filled...Even when it drops below my limit. This is because the whole lot (example your 4000 shares) need to have sellers (all 4000 shares) at that price. You drop the "all or none" and it becomes a headache (odd lots). Keep the all or none and don't get filled at your price (unless the stock is moving greatly up and down...
I took a quick look. During time period [10:30:00.000, 10:59:59.999), 2.944855MM shares traded at 1.14, of which 0.560532MM shares traded on exchanges and 2.384323MM shares traded off exchange.
During this time, the displayed offer size at 1.14 ranged from 3K+ to 5K+.
I am not familiar with the limit order priority rules (timing, size and displayed/hidden). But it feels that 500K shares at 1.14 (all hidden) having priority over OP's displayed resting order is hard to comprehend. Love to hear from someone with expertise on this.
To OP: No. Schwab is in a client business, not a prop trading business. They will never "front run your order." Their conflict of interest with you is that they may try to get paid the most for your order flow and route your order to somewhere with a low probability of a fill. So if you want to bother, ask them where they routed your order. I doubt they would give you a straight answer.
During this time, the displayed offer size at 1.14 ranged from 3K+ to 5K+.
I am not familiar with the limit order priority rules (timing, size and displayed/hidden). But it feels that 500K shares at 1.14 (all hidden) having priority over OP's displayed resting order is hard to comprehend. Love to hear from someone with expertise on this.
To OP: No. Schwab is in a client business, not a prop trading business. They will never "front run your order." Their conflict of interest with you is that they may try to get paid the most for your order flow and route your order to somewhere with a low probability of a fill. So if you want to bother, ask them where they routed your order. I doubt they would give you a straight answer.
As I stated earlier this may not be anything nefarious on Schwabs part, just an effect of how they routed the order.
A question for you about Schwab, I've been looking at transferring some trading money to Schwab to try to get some trading cost down but concern for me is really more the stability of the platform and the lag on recieving confirmation of fills, especially on mkt orders back to the platform (etrade pro for example is atrocious). How long have you been there? How happy are you in general with SSE performance especially near mkt open/close?
It's not perfect for active day traders. I place over a hundred orders a day and been with schwab for 2 years now. Where it falls apart are high volume tickers. For example, if there is a big bid of a million shares and its wiped out the platform will hang for a couple seconds. This has been frustrating to me especially if I'm trying to time a market out order. On a typical ticker it's not a problem. I've actually been a happy customer until recently. Forget trading market open, your order will hang but you can't cancel. You'll get executed and be unable to exit until an inferior price. So market open is not possible. At the close I've never bad an issue. Throughout the day market orders seem fast enough. It never hangs for me. Although at times the order confirmation window can lag popping up. You can turn it off, haven't tried myself as I like the confirmation. I'll say schwab has the best customer service in the biz so I'll give them that. I've had money given back from errors in their end twice.
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Was the sell limit "all or none"? If it was, it probably won't get picked off. When I am on the buy side, if I do an all or none, many times it won't get filled...Even when it drops below my limit. This is because the whole lot (example your 4000 shares) need to have sellers (all 4000 shares) at that price. You drop the "all or none" and it becomes a headache (odd lots). Keep the all or none and don't get filled at your price (unless the stock is moving greatly up and down...
I didn't have any special conditions in the order. Just a vanilla sell limit.
I took a quick look. During time period [10:30:00.000, 10:59:59.999), 2.944855MM shares traded at 1.14, of which 0.560532MM shares traded on exchanges and 2.384323MM shares traded off exchange.
During this time, the displayed offer size at 1.14 ranged from 3K+ to 5K+.
I am not familiar with the limit order priority rules (timing, size and displayed/hidden). But it feels that 500K shares at 1.14 (all hidden) having priority over OP's displayed resting order is hard to comprehend. Love to hear from someone with expertise on this.
To OP: No. Schwab is in a client business, not a prop trading business. They will never "front run your order." Their conflict of interest with you is that they may try to get paid the most for your order flow and route your order to somewhere with a low probability of a fill. So if you want to bother, ask them where they routed your order. I doubt they would give you a straight answer.
I considered the routing issue as a possibility while researching it. Perhaps they try to get money from routes. What's odd is the same ticker would have 2 million visible bids, I put my buy limit and got filled in 10 seconds before all those bids. The priority is a complete mystery to me.
By the way how do you know about the orders being hidden? Mind sharing?
I considered the routing issue as a possibility while researching it. Perhaps they try to get money from routes. What's odd is the same ticker would have 2 million visible bids, I put my buy limit and got filled in 10 seconds before all those bids. The priority is a complete mystery to me.
By the way how do you know about the orders being hidden? Mind sharing?
It depends where your order is routed to.
I recently also got great fills routing to MEMX.
I think OPs order didnt go to an ECN but to Citadel or someone else who probably didnt fill till price ticks up, but thats only a guess.
I took a quick look. During time period [10:30:00.000, 10:59:59.999), 2.944855MM shares traded at 1.14, of which 0.560532MM shares traded on exchanges and 2.384323MM shares traded off exchange.
During this time, the displayed offer size at 1.14 ranged from 3K+ to 5K+.
I am not familiar with the limit order priority rules (timing, size and displayed/hidden). But it feels that 500K shares at 1.14 (all hidden) having priority over OP's displayed resting order is hard to comprehend. Love to hear from someone with expertise on this.
To OP: No. Schwab is in a client business, not a prop trading business. They will never "front run your order." Their conflict of interest with you is that they may try to get paid the most for your order flow and route your order to somewhere with a low probability of a fill. So if you want to bother, ask them where they routed your order. I doubt they would give you a straight answer.