My MBA taught me after spending so much time with a bunch of people who wanted to be brand managers, that I had to find an opportunity that allowed me the independence and financial upside that would let me avoid the big corporations all my life. So far so good. The MBA was worth every penny to enlighten myself about what was going on out in the real world with joe lunchbucket and joe briefcase. My business card (why I have one I don't know -- I was constantly asked for it and I wanted to win one of those free lunches at Pizza Hut when you drop in your card) says simply Proprietor.
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Life after Proprietary Trading?
- Thread starter ethanbrooke
- Start date
Who went to school to be a trader?
I hustled pool, played poker, was a professional bowler and a forensic chemist. Stumbled into trading 20 years ago, and now am resolved to the fact that I'm NEVER gonna be able to get a real job!
Most important schooling I had was 7th grade algebra.
Who know how and why we end up here?
I hustled pool, played poker, was a professional bowler and a forensic chemist. Stumbled into trading 20 years ago, and now am resolved to the fact that I'm NEVER gonna be able to get a real job!
Most important schooling I had was 7th grade algebra.
Who know how and why we end up here?
Originally posted by bone
If you plan on staying in the trading or financial field, it's probably useful to remember that there are alot of MBA's with big-league Wall Street desk experience that are walking the streets right now. I live next door to one.
If I had to do it all over again, I would probably get an M.S. in Statistics, Physics, or some sort of quantitative field. I think that would be much more useful for trading.
This country is saturated with M.B.A.s. I think the best time to have had an M.B.A. was before the late 80's. The sensation has come and gone.
I quit B-School at Chicago ten years ago when I started making money trading. Those guys still aren't making that much money, and the hours are institutional slavery. Not for me.
An MBA doesn't apply much to trading because it's too "light weight". It's a lot of fluff. Having been to one to the top schools in the country, I see the MBA program as really fluffy though "fun" and light on the brain.
You learn more skills studying math,physics, compsci, engineering that can actually be readily apply to trading. Just look at any job postings nowadays. Quants are in GREATER demand than MBAs. And not only that, phds in math,physics, cs make MORE than your average MBA.
For example, here's a recent posting:
Title: Sr. Quantitative Programmer- Equities Trading
Skills: Equities C++ Modeling VWAP Unix
Date Posted: 06/14/02
Location: New York, NY
Area code: 212
Tax Term: Full time
Pay: Upto 400K
Length: Fulltime
Job Description:
Major investment firm is currently growing its
analytical capabilities within its equities division.
Develop various analytical tools (VWAP,
sorting/execution algorithms, and models)to support a
growing electronic trading and program trading
businesses. Candidate will also develop nonlinear
optimization techniques to address intraday portfolio
optimization and rebalancing.
Originally posted by gnome
Who went to school to be a trader?
I hustled pool, played poker, was a professional bowler and a forensic chemist. Stumbled into trading 20 years ago, and now am resolved to the fact that I'm NEVER gonna be able to get a real job!
Most important schooling I had was 7th grade algebra.
Who know how and why we end up here?
This sounds like the treatment for a Farrelly Brothers movie...
Originally posted by canuck
The thing is, IMHO, no one studies Physics to go into finance - they study Physics to explain the Universe, etc., etc.
I have several friends that were lured away from Math, Physics, CS, etc to go to Wall Street - almost all of them hated it...
Today they have Econo-Physics which is the major that you go into if Quant "Finance" is what you want to do.
nitro
you know the funny thing is, as much as trading is challenge, it is quite different from any other career. I look at it as a sport not a "job". A person in physics, or math, is interested in creating things, whether they be equations or theories, but some solution to a problem. Yes, i know we create our own theories about the markets, but only in this business can you work harder than the guy beside you, your up 1000 at 3:00pm and by 4:00 pm you lost your winnings while he had one good trade that netted him 2500. That kind of a challenge we love. Most acedemics hate it. Believe it or not i thought about being a professor of economics. As boring as it sounds, it seemed interesting. But the lure of the markets changed my heart, and i never looked back.
cheers
Yeah, that's probably true to some extent but not totally true. Really smart people want to "create thing".
I was an ex-quant for institutions and now a trader. And a lot of quants come from really extremely academic backgrounds. Like ex-professors from top schools or top notch flawless academic credentials and phds. And some of them find the use of their talents in quant finance as "boring" or "underutilized" and they go back to academia and teach after a few years of making 300-600K. Which is HUGE for a professor who is accusomted to making what 70-150K/yr at a top school.
But I think a good chunk of them stayed on because like all humans they are GREEDY! Who wouldn't stay on , getting progressively more money every year building quant models for wall st and hedge funds? I mean just starting out with no expereicne they could easy get $80K + bonus right out of a phd program with NO financial market experience, but just to build math models and learning the finance along the way. And in a mere 5-7yrs, they can 5x-10x that amount and making half a mil to $750K once they become sr quants. Geez, why go back?
Originally posted by gnome
Who went to school to be a trader?
I hustled pool, played poker, was a professional bowler and a forensic chemist. Stumbled into trading 20 years ago, and now am resolved to the fact that I'm NEVER gonna be able to get a real job!
Most important schooling I had was 7th grade algebra.
Who know how and why we end up here?
Yep. For short-term intraday trading, I think "Street Smarts" is better than ANY ANY academic credentials! Period.
I've done both (institutional and prop trading). I think intraday trading is about speed and reading the tape. TA, etc. That, I think will never be taught in a formal setting. And can only be gained through experiences(losses and gains) haha
Farrelly Brothers... that's a good one.
Semi-retired now, I look back and see how little I accomplished. Still, there's a lot of satisfaction in making trading a career. And we all know how difficult that is.
My wife's an MD and she's totally oblivious to the financial world (except the SPENDING part.) Making your living in the financial markets takes something special, and I admire the "real" pros... the one's who build capital over the years and who never blow-up, wipe out their clients' assets, and have to ask someone for more money to get back in business. They can't teach you that in B-School or anywhere else.
Semi-retired now, I look back and see how little I accomplished. Still, there's a lot of satisfaction in making trading a career. And we all know how difficult that is.
My wife's an MD and she's totally oblivious to the financial world (except the SPENDING part.) Making your living in the financial markets takes something special, and I admire the "real" pros... the one's who build capital over the years and who never blow-up, wipe out their clients' assets, and have to ask someone for more money to get back in business. They can't teach you that in B-School or anywhere else.
Robert A. Green ,
You make some very valid points. Not all LLC's or prop firms are the same. At LWS we feel traders should put up a significant capital contribution, of at least $25,000 or more . Short term trading is of course high risk and only risk capital should be used for day trading or any short term trading strategies. We do not take any traders(LLC members) who are not suitable for short term trading and who are undercapitalized.
I would suggest all prospective traders at LLC's or Prop firms read the LLC agreements and/or employment contacts and discuss their agreements with a tax professional or legal advisor
if there is something that the trader does not understand.
At LWS, our firm is setup up and the LLC members receive a K-1 that should receive tax treatment as ordinary income.
The LLC structure offers benefits to professional traders . The LLC structure is not for everyone , so each trader must see if the
LLC structure works for them as far as margin, tax benefits and
capital required .
Gene Weissman
Lieber & Weissman Sec., LLC
gweissman@stocktrade.net
You make some very valid points. Not all LLC's or prop firms are the same. At LWS we feel traders should put up a significant capital contribution, of at least $25,000 or more . Short term trading is of course high risk and only risk capital should be used for day trading or any short term trading strategies. We do not take any traders(LLC members) who are not suitable for short term trading and who are undercapitalized.
I would suggest all prospective traders at LLC's or Prop firms read the LLC agreements and/or employment contacts and discuss their agreements with a tax professional or legal advisor
if there is something that the trader does not understand.
At LWS, our firm is setup up and the LLC members receive a K-1 that should receive tax treatment as ordinary income.
The LLC structure offers benefits to professional traders . The LLC structure is not for everyone , so each trader must see if the
LLC structure works for them as far as margin, tax benefits and
capital required .
Gene Weissman
Lieber & Weissman Sec., LLC
gweissman@stocktrade.net