Lies and more lies. Who Said What When

I think it is too early to say wether there is WMD there or not . Iraq is not a small country and Saddam had years to hide those hypothetical WMD. Chances are that it would take years for the US to find em.
 
Quote from aradiel:

I think it is too early to say whether there is WMD there or not . Iraq is not a small country and Saddam had years to hide those hypothetical WMD. Chances are that it would take years for the US to find em.
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But it was not too early for us to drop bombs on that country based on the presumption of "hypothetical WMD" that would take years to find??? How were the Bush gang all so damn sure that Iraq had all these weapons if as you claim even being there as an occupying presence we presumably won't even be able to find the damn things for years?
 
Quote from aradiel:

I think it is too early to say wether there is WMD there or not there. Iraq is not a small country and Saddam had years to hide those hypothetical WMD. Chances are that it would take years for the US to find em.
More...
Please do say that to the surviving families of our dead soldiers and the surviving families of the thousands innocent children men and women over Iraq. (hmm maybe this post belongs to this war is illegal thread)

Also explain to them why it is guilty until proven innocent and why executing them with no evidence is the right thing to do. Even Powell admits that the intelligence he was "asked" to present UN was basically a pile of $hit:mad: :mad:

How would you or your loved ones like to have been on the receiving end of them cluster bombs?

But hey when trillions of dollars will be lining the pockets of few cos and the politicians behind them, what's few human lives?:mad: :mad:

And Wolfowitz now admits it was about oil:mad: :mad: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13351
check his direct quote.
What the friggin f%$k are we doing to ourselves and to the world out there??:mad: :mad:
 
Since these lies are being posted on two separate threads, I'll post the response on both threads as well - ahem:

Typical distortions from the GUARDIAN - rather similar to the same twisting of Wolfowitz's words done with his WMD statements, but even more blatantly dishonest. Typical willingness from Trader556 to swallow it whole, unquestioningly.

Here's how Daniel Drezner - one among many observers - explained the events. After quoting the same GUARDIAN article, he continues as follows:

Sounds pretty devastating, right? The quote makes it seem like Wolfowitz is arguing that Iraq was such a lucrative prize that it would have been stupid not to invade and grab the oil.

Now let's go to the actual transcript and see what Wolfowitz said in context [responding to a question about why the U.S. thought using economic pressure would work with respect to North Korea and not with regard to Iraq]:


Look, the primarily difference -- to put it a little too simply -- between North Korea and Iraq is that we had virtually no economic options with Iraq because the country floats on a sea of oil. In the case of North Korea, the country is teetering on the edge of economic collapse and that I believe is a major point of leverage whereas the military picture with North Korea is very different from that with Iraq. The problems in both cases have some similarities but the solutions have got to be tailored to the circumstances which are very different.


Clearly, what Wolfowitz meant was that Iraq's oil made it easy for Saddam Hussein's regime to survive economic sanctions, while North Korea might be more vulnerable to economic pressure.

This is how every other news outlet -- UPI, AP, Fox News, The Australian -- covered the story. [...]

The Guardian's version of events in such a ludicrous distortion of Wolfowitz's words that it falls into the "useful idiots" category. By apparently relying on a German translation/distortion of Wolfowitz's words -- when multiple English-language sources of the actual comments were available -- I have to wonder if the Guardian is guilty of libel in this case.
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http://drezner.blogspot.com/2003_06_01_drezner_archive.html#95299121

In addition to being stupid, manipulatively distorting someone's words is extremely dishonest. Coming from those who like to pose as brave truthtellers, it's repulsively hypocritical.
 
Quote from LiverNoMore:

Hmm,


do you think


perhaps it might



be that




George W. Bush



is a big fat lying



SACK OF SHIT????
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dude, you seem pretty logical from some of your other posts i've read. in one of your posts, i think you mentioned perspective bias.

while it is true, many americans are pro-american because they live there, keep in mind, you may very well have your own perspective bias. if wherever you're from, your gov. disagrees with the usa, as well as your friends & family, you probably have an anti-american perspective bias. it goes both ways....
 
Quote from trader556:


Please do say that to the surviving families of our dead soldiers and the surviving families of the thousands innocent children men and women over Iraq. (hmm maybe this post belongs to this war is illegal thread)
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Well Im not taking sides, I just think a couple of months is way too short period of time to search the entire country for the weapons in question.

Regarding the surviving families of your dead soldiers, well, its indeed sad but if you don't want to die fighting I suggest you to be a doctor, lawyer or something, because as far as I know you are not forced by the state to join the military, its a free choice.

Guys don't take me wrong here, Im neutral to the situation since I feel I don't have enough information to build up my opinion.

(eventhough after 9/11 I got a gut feeling that it was time for the US to show the rest of the world who is STILL the boss. In the game of power, all the other countries desire the fall of America in some extent, they are jealous, and in any sign of weakness they are ready to step on the US. And I think Saddam has done enough things in the past that makes him a good opportunity to be takes as an example.
In capitalism if you go from active from passive you die. The world requires a leader, and I would prefer the US as the leader than any other country)

Just IMO, I still love all the bastards who disagree with me :D



edit : damn I just noticed the distortion that GUARDIAN has done. Taking words out of context is LOW LOW LOW practice.
 
Quote from aradiel:


edit : damn I just noticed the distortion that GUARDIAN has done. Taking words out of context is LOW LOW LOW practice.
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They've also been forced to retract and "clarify" both the Wolfowitz story AND one of the lead stories in the recent trumped-up WMD controversy:

The Guardian
Thursday June 5, 2003

A report which was posted on our website on June 4 under the heading "Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil" misconstrued remarks made by the US deputy defence secretary, Paul Wolfowitz, making it appear that he had said that oil was the main reason for going to war in Iraq. He did not say that. He said, according to the Department of Defence website, "The ... difference between North Korea and Iraq is that we had virtually no economic options with Iraq because the country floats on a sea of oil. In the case of North Korea, the country is teetering on the edge of economic collapse and that I believe is a major point of leverage whereas the military picture with North Korea is very different from that with Iraq." The sense was clearly that the US had no economic options by means of which to achieve its objectives, not that the economic value of the oil motivated the war. The report appeared only on the website and has now been removed.
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Thursday June 5, 2003
The Guardian

In our front page lead on May 31 headlined "Straw, Powell had serious doubts over their Iraqi weapons claims," we said that the foreign secretary Jack Straw and his US counterpart Colin Powell had met at the Waldorf Hotel in New York shortly before Mr Powell addressed the United Nations on February 5. Mr Straw has now made it clear that no such meeting took place. The Guardian accepts that and apologises for suggesting it did.
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The items were lousy propaganda - easily and simply disposed of, though some harm has already been done, as no doubt the ideas will circulate around kneejerk leftist and peace movement circles forever and ever, ad nauseam. How the stories even came to exist raises questions about the GUARDIAN and its willingness to trust and unwillingness even to fact-check dubious sources, at least when the latter's information just happens to confirm the paper's prejudices. (Sound familiar?) Apparently, Straw wasn't even in New York at the time the meeting between him and Powell was supposed to have taken place. And you'd have to have been pretty naive about how the world works, utterly blinded by your biases, or just not too swift ever to have believed the Wolfowitz story in the first place.

The BBC trumpets a story falsely claiming that American rescuing PFC Lynch were firing "blanks" in the process of creating a made-for-TV event. (BTW: Follow-up interviews with Iraqis at the hospital by NBC suggested that the "blanks" might have been "flash-bang" stun grenades.) Anti-Bush Columnists like Robert Scheer and Maureen Dowd uncritically pick up and spread such items, or create new ones of their own by distorting and decontextualizing statements of public figures - as when Dowd recently mangled a statement of Bush's to make it seem like he was claiming to have destroyed Al Qaeda, or when the "news" pages "improved" a statement of Gen. Wallace's during the war to make it seem like he was admitting the US was unprepared for Iraqi resistance.

These are just a few examples of what's been going on. I ask again: Who are the real liars here?

The foolish and presumptuous charges made by the likes of Trader556 are typical of the twaddle that's still circulating in Left-Land - of a piece with the made-up casualty figures he keeps throwing around.

Meanwhile, every day brings another mass grave in Iraq to be unearthed. It seems (according to Kurdish news sources) that they just found one in which over 200 children were buried alive - some of the little girls with their dolls.

My recommendation to Trader556 and his buddies is to take some time off from trading this Summer, and do some volunteer work in Iraq. I'm sure they could use some help collecting unearthed corpses prior to identification and proper burial. Then he could come back and tell us whether he still thinks the war was unjustified, and that the Iraqis were better off under Hussein.

Oh, and in answer to Trader556's frequent question, what the friggin f&ck is going in is this: This country's leaders are trying to deal with a dangerous, complex, and ugly world situation, while immature cranks, who devote all their naive cynicism toward their own country and none toward the incompetents and ideologues who provide them with their "news," make false accusations and whine.
 
Good post. See, I live in Brazil, and people here love to make up lame excuses for their shitty situation. In the end for them its all the USs fault. I think they do this because its the easiest path to take. And I see this country (Brazil) going more and more down the drains everyday. I wonder how long it will take for them to realize excuses doesnt build anything validate.
 
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