Lie of the Year: Coronavirus downplay and denial

[piezoe]

Be more specific. If people want to wear a mask and get an injection they are still free to.

Sorry, I am not the one who leaked a bioweapon out of that lab. Dems may want to point their anger where it belongs.

The chance of anyone, yourself included, of becoming infected depend on the infection rate in the population and other factors. The innate effectiveness of regular surgical masks at preventing an airborne viral infection is estimated, on the basis of laboratory tests using aerosols, is between 60 and 70%. This innate effectiveness does not depend on the infection rate, but the practical value of wearing a mask does depend on the infection rate. Because masks are not 100% effective, as the the infection rate increases the practical value of wearing a mask in preventing infection goes down. In the limit as the infection rate approaches 100% the rate of infection among mask wearers approaches the infection rate of non-mask wearers. In other words, masks have the greatest practical effectiveness when the overall infection rate in a population is relatively low. Currently in the U.S. the infection rate, even in areas where it is greatest, is still low enough that masks have a significant practical value in preventing the spread of the disease.

When you don't wear a mask in the presence of others, you increase your chance of becoming infected. If that were all there is to it, most of us would say it's your right to assume greater risk if you want to. However by intentionally choosing to take on more risk you increase your chance of infecting others. That wouldn't be true if you could assume with 100% certainty that you are not infected and will not become infected; but you can't! Therefore, most of us would say that the right to increase the chance of others becoming infected is a right you shouldn't have.

When governments mandate infection preventive measures, they are, in effect, operating on the principle that you should not have the right to increase the chance of people other than yourself becoming infected.

With regard to your comment on a "...leaked bioweapon," let me point out that there is no evidence yet that anyone, the Chinese included, was intending to use a Covid virus as a bio-weapon. This would make no sense at all, as Covid virus do not have the characteristics needed in bioweapons, even those that might be used in "economic warfare." This is an imaginary, fanciful, and impractical idea. It is quite possible that this particular Covid virus -- corona virus are common, and hundreds have been identified -- was spread via unintentional contamination, through carelessness perhaps, from the Wuhan viral research center, but any thought that it would be intentionally used by a government to infect people is pretty far fetched.

 

[WeToddDid2]

This would make no sense at all, as Covid virus do not have the characteristics needed in bioweapons, even those that might be used in "economic warfare."

I do not think that Covid-19 was created to be a bioweapon. However, I am curios. Why does Covid not meet the characteristics needed in bioweapons? What are the characteristics of bioweapons? What are the characteristics of a bioweapon that might be used specifically in "economic warfare"?

 

[jem]

all of that is academic when it comes to real life.
Surgical mask get replaced upon entering a new room by health care workers
because dirty masks are dangerous. They would not dream of wearing the same mask all day if they have the choice.

Most surgical and cloth masks are garbage either blocking too much so you breathe around the sides or too little.
for instance...


https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342
...
Discussion: Neither surgical nor cotton masks effectively filtered SARS–CoV-2 during coughs by infected patients. Prior evidence that surgical masks effectively filtered influenza virus (1) informed recommendations that patients with confirmed or suspected COVID-19 should wear face masks to prevent transmission (2). However, the size and concentrations of SARS–CoV-2 in aerosols generated during coughing are unknown. Oberg and Brousseau (3) demonstrated that surgical masks did not exhibit adequate filter performance against aerosols measuring 0.9, 2.0, and 3.1 μm in diameter. Lee and colleagues (4) showed that particles 0.04 to 0.2 μm can penetrate surgical masks. The size of the SARS–CoV particle from the 2002–2004 outbreak was estimated as 0.08 to 0.14 μm (5); assuming that SARS-CoV-2 has a similar size, surgical masks are unlikely to effectively filter this virus.

Of note, we found greater contamination on the outer than the inner mask surfaces. Although it is possible that virus particles may cross from the inner to the outer surface because of the physical pressure of swabbing, we swabbed the outer surface before the inner surface. The consistent finding of virus on the outer mask surface is unlikely to have been caused by experimental error or artifact. The mask's aerodynamic features may explain this finding. A turbulent jet due to air leakage around the mask edge could contaminate the outer surface. Alternatively, the small aerosols of SARS–CoV-2 generated during a high-velocity cough might penetrate the masks. However, this hypothesis may only be valid if the coughing patients did not exhale any large-sized particles, which would be expected to be deposited on the inner surface despite high velocity. These observations support the importance of hand hygiene after touching the outer surface of masks.

The chance of anyone, yourself included, of becoming infected depend on the infection rate in the population and other factors. The innate effectiveness of regular surgical masks at preventing an airborne viral infection is estimated, on the basis of laboratory tests using aerosols, is between 60 and 70%. This innate effectiveness does not depend on the infection rate, but the practical value of wearing a mask does depend on the infection rate. Because masks are not 100% effective, as the the infection rate increases the practical value of wearing a mask in preventing infection goes down. In the limit as the infection rate approaches 100% the rate of infection among mask wearers approaches the infection rate of non-mask wearers. In other words, masks have the greatest practical effectiveness when the overall infection rate in a population is relatively low. Currently in the U.S. the infection rate, even in areas where it is greatest, is still low enough that masks have a significant practical value in preventing the spread of the disease.

When you don't wear a mask in the presence of others, you increase your chance of becoming infected. If that were all there is to it, most of us would say it's your right to assume greater risk if you want to. However by intentionally choosing to take on more risk you increase your chance of infecting others. That wouldn't be true if you could assume with 100% certainty that you are not infected and will not become infected; but you can't! Therefore, most of us would say that the right to increase the chance of others becoming infected is a right you shouldn't have.

When governments mandate infection preventive measures, they are, in effect, operating on the principle that you should not have the right to increase the chance of people other than yourself becoming infected.

With regard to your comment on a "...leaked bioweapon," let me point out that there is no evidence yet that anyone, the Chinese included, was intending to use a Covid virus as a bio-weapon. This would make no sense at all, as Covid virus do not have the characteristics needed in bioweapons, even those that might be used in "economic warfare." This is an imaginary, fanciful, and impractical idea. It is quite possible that this particular Covid virus -- corona virus are common, and hundreds have been identified -- was spread via unintentional contamination, through carelessness perhaps, from the Wuhan viral research center, but any thought that it would be intentionally used by a government to infect people is pretty far fetched.

 

[wrbtrader]

If someone comes knocking on your door and they look like this...you know you're fucked and there's a Bioweapon nearby in which they are prepare to deal with the situation.

wrbtrader

 

[piezoe]

If Government in the US is going to attempt to take away freedoms...
at least the Govt edicts should be designed to directly remedy the issues they are attempt to fix.

I think by now... everyone knows that it is the obese, the very old, and those with co morbidities who are doing the vast amount of dying. They also are the most admits to ICUs.

Govt solutions should be well tailored to address that very situation.
Any restrictions on one's freedoms should start with the group you are trying to protect.

In others words in you are going to declare lockdowns... lets do serious lockdowns for the high risk group. Design programs to make sure they get care. Demand old folks homes... protect their residents really well... including proper testing and safety restrictions on their workers.

Lets design programs to make sure they can get their food and medicine delivered to their homes so they don't have to leave.

Let make protocols for multigeneration families.


Let's stop bullshitting around with dangerous PC shit about masks which don't protect people per the studies and actually protect the high risk properly.

This is a serious situation.... We may be close to having to do triage at hospitals because our Govt officials have to too P.C. to demand the high risk to lock down properly and isolate themselves from family member properly.

If you are indirectly impugning the Trump Administration for first doing nothing followed by incompetent, counterproductive and disastrous leadership in protecting the nation from the Covid-19 virus, then I would have to agree. This certainly has been the worst federal administration of my lifetime, but from what I've read and learned it would seem to be by far the worst administration in the Nation's history. All the other administration failures were through incompetence, wrongheadedness, ignorance, or corruption. This administrations failure was by design! This could only occur when the leader is, in effect, even if not clinically, insane, and for whatever reason the few who hold the power to correct the dire situation the Nation has found itself in fail to do so.

 

[UsualName]

I sure it would make your life of delusion easier to deal with. Sorry, I deal in reality and I will continue to club your over the head with it.
Dr. Fauci "Moves Goal Posts" About Herd Immunity. - YouTube
He lies about everything but you can jump to 9 minutes or so to hear him telling us masks don't help, in fact they may hurt.

Democrats telling us don't worry about Covid. Don't believe you're lying eyes and ears, just trust what your ministry of truth tells you to think.
Nancy Pelosi - Chinatown - February 24, 2020 - YouTube
8 times Bill de Blasio downplayed the coronavirus - YouTube
Trump wants to quarantine NY early on, Cuomo says no.
Cuomo says possible NY quarantine 'would be chaos and mayhem' - YouTube

What you are citing are from early in the pandemic when there wasn’t much known Covid in the country and much was not known about Covid, like how it spreads.

You choose to misrepresent the facts and context of these statements then you act like you’re any better than the politicians that do the same thing. You’re just as bad.

 

[piezoe]

all of that is academic when it comes to real life.
Surgical mask get replaced upon entering a new room by health care workers
because dirty masks are dangerous. They would not dream of wearing the same mask all day if they have the choice.

Most surgical and cloth masks are garbage either blocking too much so you breathe around the sides or too little.
for instance...


https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342
...
Discussion: Neither surgical nor cotton masks effectively filtered SARS–CoV-2 during coughs by infected patients. Prior evidence that surgical masks effectively filtered influenza virus (1) informed recommendations that patients with confirmed or suspected COVID-19 should wear face masks to prevent transmission (2). However, the size and concentrations of SARS–CoV-2 in aerosols generated during coughing are unknown. Oberg and Brousseau (3) demonstrated that surgical masks did not exhibit adequate filter performance against aerosols measuring 0.9, 2.0, and 3.1 μm in diameter. Lee and colleagues (4) showed that particles 0.04 to 0.2 μm can penetrate surgical masks. The size of the SARS–CoV particle from the 2002–2004 outbreak was estimated as 0.08 to 0.14 μm (5); assuming that SARS-CoV-2 has a similar size, surgical masks are unlikely to effectively filter this virus.

Of note, we found greater contamination on the outer than the inner mask surfaces. Although it is possible that virus particles may cross from the inner to the outer surface because of the physical pressure of swabbing, we swabbed the outer surface before the inner surface. The consistent finding of virus on the outer mask surface is unlikely to have been caused by experimental error or artifact. The mask's aerodynamic features may explain this finding. A turbulent jet due to air leakage around the mask edge could contaminate the outer surface. Alternatively, the small aerosols of SARS–CoV-2 generated during a high-velocity cough might penetrate the masks. However, this hypothesis may only be valid if the coughing patients did not exhale any large-sized particles, which would be expected to be deposited on the inner surface despite high velocity. These observations support the importance of hand hygiene after touching the outer surface of masks.

Jem. no one disputes this findings. They amount to a further indictment of the Administration for lack of leadership and guidance as to the proper wearing of masks and seeing to it that there was by mid Jan, 2020, a ready supply of what are 25 cent masks for everyone. But I dispute any conclusion that wearing masks, even as they are sometime ineptly being worn in the U.S., is of no value. Do I wish the Administration would have been competent rather than disastrous, yes, of course I do. We will have a competnet administration starting Jan. 20. Continue wearing your Mask when in public spaces and wear a new one daily, or whenever you think it might be contaminated. Wash your hands and face.

Edit: Everyone should be aware that exhaled Covid virus are not individual bare virus ( ~ 0.1 micron or 1000 Angstroms) but are invariably contained within aerosols or droplets. Exhaled aerosols particles are typically a little larger than the very small ~< 1 micron aerosols that readily penetrate surgical masks. But regular surgical masks will only stop a fraction of exhaled aerosols from penetrating. However it seems likely that Masks are much more protective of others when worn by an infected person than they are in protecting an uninfected person from an unmasked infected person! This is extremely important to recognize as it is the justification for everyone wearing masks, because we don't have perfect knowledge of who is infected and capable of transmitting the virus. I am guessing that aerosol size decreases rapidly upon exiting the oral or nasal cavity and that this is the reason masks work best when worn by an infected person to prevent infection of others.
see for example this study in "The Lancet". https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30323-4/fulltext

 

[piezoe]

I do not think that Covid-19 was created to be a bioweapon. However, I am curios. Why does Covid not meet the characteristics needed in bioweapons? What are the characteristics of bioweapons? What are the characteristics of a bioweapon that might be used specifically in "economic warfare"?

The best weapon, bio or otherwise, is one that can be aimed at specific targets and have, ideally, zero untended consequences. This applies to both conventional and economic warfare.

 

[CaptainObvious]

What you are citing are from early in the pandemic when there wasn’t much known Covid in the country and much was not known about Covid, like how it spreads.

You choose to misrepresent the facts and context of these statements then you act like you’re any better than the politicians that do the same thing. You’re just as bad.

You admit democrats were wrong, dead wrong in their politically driven assumptions "early on", but were and are very quick to forgive them. Why don't you apply that same standard to your political opponents? Answer, doesn't advance the agenda. Go pretend to have some moral high ground elsewhere. Ain't gonna fly here.

 

[jem]

you still have trump derangement.
Dude.. you won.
Get over it.

CA did not listen to Trump it was the leader of Covid suppression of rights... and we are as close to health care apocalypse because of open border and covid policies which were not designed based on data... but pc stupidity.

Trump had almost nothing to do with this failure here in California.
Biden will surely copy what moron Newsom has done... and failed with... twice.



No piezoe... you should put a new mask whenever you meet a new person. if you wish to do what healthcare does. Otherwise you are just pushing bullshit not backed by data.
Masks get dirty very quickly.

Share the real facts... save lives.
Bullshit about masks and you are killing the high risk.

Masks do not protect the wearer...
per the best studies we have.

Jem. no one disputes this findings. They amount to a further indictment of the Administration for lack of leadership and guidance as to the proper wearing of masks and seeing to it that there was by mid Jan, 2020, a ready supply of what are 25 cent masks for everyone. But I dispute any conclusion that wearing masks, even as they are sometime ineptly being worn in the U.S., is of no value. Do I wish the Administration would have been competent rather than disastrous, yes, of course I do. We will have a competnet administration starting Jan. 20. Continue wearing your Mask when in public spaces and wear a new one daily, or whenever you think it might be contaminated. Wash your hands and face.

Edit: Everyone should be aware that exhaled Covid virus are not individual bare virus ( ~ 0.1 micron or 1000 Angstroms) but are invariably contained within aerosols or droplets. Exhaled aerosols particles are typically a little larger than the very small ~< 1 micron aerosols that readily penetrate surgical masks. But regular surgical masks will only stop a fraction of exhaled aerosols from penetrating. However it seems likely that Masks are much more protective of others when worn by an infected person than they are in protecting an uninfected person from an unmasked infected person! This is extremely important to recognize as it is the justification for everyone wearing masks, because we don't have perfect knowledge of who is infected and capable of transmitting the virus. I am guessing that aerosol size decreases rapidly upon exiting the oral or nasal cavity and that this is the reason masks work best when worn by an infected person to prevent infection of others.
see for example this study in "The Lancet". https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30323-4/fulltext